dragon lady
Very Well-Known Member
God luck & great you have a appt.......xoxo's to the man!
advice needed for sick bearded dragon
- Thread starter mumof4*
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squeezen spotty
Active Member
asked a couple of vets at my work and didnt find out much, when i mentioned the rate of his medication they screwed there nose up and said it should be more frequent but there not reptile vets.
i tryed to find one of the vets special books that could have given me some more info but couldnt find it in amonst the 50 million other books we have. lol
sorry i couldnt be any more helpful, hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow.
i tryed to find one of the vets special books that could have given me some more info but couldnt find it in amonst the 50 million other books we have. lol
sorry i couldnt be any more helpful, hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow.
JKretzs613
Well-Known Member
Hello
Hello,
Well, yes it does matter really. Baytril is very hard on their system. If they overdosed him it could set him for renal failure or problems now or later on. Do you know if they dosed him according to his weight?
Normally it is not a good idea to use too much medication on a baby dragon though. How old is your dragon? I am sorry if I missed that in previous posts..
How did the vet visit go? Did they do a blood test?
How is he doing? What color are his urates? Are they white, offcolored, hard, or soft?
Tracie
Hello,
Well, yes it does matter really. Baytril is very hard on their system. If they overdosed him it could set him for renal failure or problems now or later on. Do you know if they dosed him according to his weight?
Normally it is not a good idea to use too much medication on a baby dragon though. How old is your dragon? I am sorry if I missed that in previous posts..
How did the vet visit go? Did they do a blood test?
How is he doing? What color are his urates? Are they white, offcolored, hard, or soft?
Tracie
koubee
Very Well-Known Member
I'll reply on behalf of mumof4*, as we are very good friends.
Lazarus has been on Baytril, i can't remember the dose at the moment but it was more frequent than before.
He has made very little improvement.
I saw him today and he is still very quiet and hasn't really changed.
Mumof4* is taking him back to see Brendan Carmel (vet) as he finishes his Baytril in a day or so.
Blood tests came back with an infection, but the vet really couldn't pin point what the exact problem was.
I'll give mumof4* a ring and get her to give you an update.
Lazarus has been on Baytril, i can't remember the dose at the moment but it was more frequent than before.
He has made very little improvement.
I saw him today and he is still very quiet and hasn't really changed.
Mumof4* is taking him back to see Brendan Carmel (vet) as he finishes his Baytril in a day or so.
Blood tests came back with an infection, but the vet really couldn't pin point what the exact problem was.
I'll give mumof4* a ring and get her to give you an update.
dragon lady
Very Well-Known Member
Hey mumof4.... hope he'll be getting better soon xo's to him
Hi all.
Sorry not to reply, but I've also been busy with nearly 21 newly hatched baby beardies (Lazarus is now a Daddy himself!) as well as the man himself still being quite ill.
The vet we went to who specialises in exotic animals - bearded dragons amonst others, put Lazarus on .15ml Baytril twice a day for 10 days. They mentioned (as most of you suspected) that the other dosage we were given was apparently ideal for snakes but Beardies need it frequently. He mentioned that a blood test would be beneficial so we went ahead (and yes I trully must love him because I'm sure I wont be able to afford to eat for 2 weeks!). I believe he said his white cell count was high - indicating an infection (if I have the colour of the cells around the wrong way I'm sure you will all let me know) He said we would try the Baytril and other than that we would possibly do a stoll sample if this doesn't have an effect.
He did think he was quite healthy and was perfectly capable of breeding. He mentioned that being seperated from his partner and then being put briefly with another may has upset him, not to mention being put into a different enclosure when he got home. It's possible the change has put him out which led to him becoming sick.
Lazarus has now finished his Baytril, but doesn't appear to be better as yet. He did eat a few meal worms (which the vet assured me were fine to give him) when they were presented
Sorry not to reply, but I've also been busy with nearly 21 newly hatched baby beardies (Lazarus is now a Daddy himself!) as well as the man himself still being quite ill.
The vet we went to who specialises in exotic animals - bearded dragons amonst others, put Lazarus on .15ml Baytril twice a day for 10 days. They mentioned (as most of you suspected) that the other dosage we were given was apparently ideal for snakes but Beardies need it frequently. He mentioned that a blood test would be beneficial so we went ahead (and yes I trully must love him because I'm sure I wont be able to afford to eat for 2 weeks!). I believe he said his white cell count was high - indicating an infection (if I have the colour of the cells around the wrong way I'm sure you will all let me know) He said we would try the Baytril and other than that we would possibly do a stoll sample if this doesn't have an effect.
He did think he was quite healthy and was perfectly capable of breeding. He mentioned that being seperated from his partner and then being put briefly with another may has upset him, not to mention being put into a different enclosure when he got home. It's possible the change has put him out which led to him becoming sick.
Lazarus has now finished his Baytril, but doesn't appear to be better as yet. He did eat a few meal worms (which the vet assured me were fine to give him) when they were presented
JKretzs613
Well-Known Member
Hello
Hello,
Thanks for the updates. He has an infection, did they specify the type?
I hate to bring up the breeding issue again, however, there are some anatomical reasons why a 9 month old dragon should not be forced to breed. Their hemepenes are not fully developed, really & neither are their retractor muscles. They can injure themselves, or worse, & prolapse from inadequate muscular control.
Here in the US, it is not a norm to breed males until around 18 months & females at 2 years. A male can run his hormonal levels down so much that he is more susceptible to infections & I feel this is what has happened to him.
The baytril is very hard on him. I highly recommend getting a probiotic such as acidophiliz, jumpstart, benebac or nutribac whichever you can find over there. Basically it is just a formula that has good bacteria which will help restore the normal gut flora that the meds tend to destroy & causes them to lose their appetite. To help with appetite you can also try to find bee pollen, royal jelly & brewer's yeast, at a healthfood store, & mix that with water & just use a pinch of each daily to help him out.
I would be very careful not to overmedicate at his age, their systems cannot take it. Make sure too, that oral hydration is given, daily. You can use a diluted pedialyte solution as well.
I hope that he improves quickly.
You also mentioned you had a ceramic heat emitter for heating? Do you have a bright white light in there in conjunction with any UVB lighting? A ceramic heat emitter does not give out any light & they need bright light to thrive. If you are using a UVB light what type & brand do you use? How old is it?
How often do you use calcium for him?
Tracie
Hello,
Thanks for the updates. He has an infection, did they specify the type?
I hate to bring up the breeding issue again, however, there are some anatomical reasons why a 9 month old dragon should not be forced to breed. Their hemepenes are not fully developed, really & neither are their retractor muscles. They can injure themselves, or worse, & prolapse from inadequate muscular control.
Here in the US, it is not a norm to breed males until around 18 months & females at 2 years. A male can run his hormonal levels down so much that he is more susceptible to infections & I feel this is what has happened to him.
The baytril is very hard on him. I highly recommend getting a probiotic such as acidophiliz, jumpstart, benebac or nutribac whichever you can find over there. Basically it is just a formula that has good bacteria which will help restore the normal gut flora that the meds tend to destroy & causes them to lose their appetite. To help with appetite you can also try to find bee pollen, royal jelly & brewer's yeast, at a healthfood store, & mix that with water & just use a pinch of each daily to help him out.
I would be very careful not to overmedicate at his age, their systems cannot take it. Make sure too, that oral hydration is given, daily. You can use a diluted pedialyte solution as well.
I hope that he improves quickly.
You also mentioned you had a ceramic heat emitter for heating? Do you have a bright white light in there in conjunction with any UVB lighting? A ceramic heat emitter does not give out any light & they need bright light to thrive. If you are using a UVB light what type & brand do you use? How old is it?
How often do you use calcium for him?
Tracie
Hi all,
Thanks for the PM sorry I haven't replied but I have been away doing research on lace monitors in Gippsland and have not had access to the internet. There are a number of things that worry me about this case:
1. The dose of baytril was totally insufficient. In addition to this baytril is not that effective in treating reptile infections, there are far better antibiotics available. If baytril is given as an injection it is also very painful and can result in muscle necrosis. For these reasons I never prescribe it to sick reptiles.
2. I am a little unclear on what the diagnosis with the crystals is. Unlike mammals the nitrogenous waste in reptiles is Uric Acid (Urea in most mammals). This is stored in a section of the cloaca called the urodeum prior to evacuation. It is the white component of the faeces, the fluid part is in fact water, not urine. Uric Acid by definition is composed of crystals and this is normal. If animals are having difficulty passing urates it may be an indication of dehydration or other systemic illness.
My recommendation would be to get a blood test and feacal examination on any lizard that is abnormally depressed, generally looking unwell or of their food etc. The treatment regime can then be tailored according to the results of these tests. Sorry not to be more informative but it is a little hard to diagnose over the internet without being able to see the animal. If you are going to the expo I will be there to answer any other questions you may have.
Thanks for the PM sorry I haven't replied but I have been away doing research on lace monitors in Gippsland and have not had access to the internet. There are a number of things that worry me about this case:
1. The dose of baytril was totally insufficient. In addition to this baytril is not that effective in treating reptile infections, there are far better antibiotics available. If baytril is given as an injection it is also very painful and can result in muscle necrosis. For these reasons I never prescribe it to sick reptiles.
2. I am a little unclear on what the diagnosis with the crystals is. Unlike mammals the nitrogenous waste in reptiles is Uric Acid (Urea in most mammals). This is stored in a section of the cloaca called the urodeum prior to evacuation. It is the white component of the faeces, the fluid part is in fact water, not urine. Uric Acid by definition is composed of crystals and this is normal. If animals are having difficulty passing urates it may be an indication of dehydration or other systemic illness.
My recommendation would be to get a blood test and feacal examination on any lizard that is abnormally depressed, generally looking unwell or of their food etc. The treatment regime can then be tailored according to the results of these tests. Sorry not to be more informative but it is a little hard to diagnose over the internet without being able to see the animal. If you are going to the expo I will be there to answer any other questions you may have.
koubee
Very Well-Known Member
Is it possible that Lazarus got ill from being at my house with my dragon?
Mumof4* thinks that the change of enviroment and enclosure might have lead to his illness. All my dragons are very healthy and regually cleaned.
Mumof4* thinks that the change of enviroment and enclosure might have lead to his illness. All my dragons are very healthy and regually cleaned.
It is possible that it may be a stress related illness. Removing an animal from an environment where it is comfortable may result in a stressful state. Stress can also come from domination or intimidation from other animals (this can be hard to se in reptiles because although they may appear to be friends there can be fierce competion for basking sites etc and this may not be apparent to us mere humans). Stress leads to suppression of the immune system and reduces appetite, these things can both result in opportunistic infections.
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