Calling all vegetarians/vegans

[LadyJ]

I had to have a very restricted diet for about three years and that included excluding meat and milk. Even now i choose vego over a 'normal' diet because its kinda cheaper for me.

I would recommend taking an iron vitamin c supplement (not as good as the real thing but better than sitting down to an entire plate of spinach every day) like flora floradix (i think) Its very very concentrated and is amazing. I live in NSW and its at all Healthy Life Shops in a brown bottle.

Divide your plate. Protein, Carbs, Vegies. This can be as simple as having some quinoa with steamed boy choi in a tomato style sauce with bread Also think outside the box. I dont really like tofu so i found other subsitutes for my protein like nuts, beans and bean mixes, legumes etc.

this website might also help.Essentials of Vegan Nutrition and a Vegan Diet

Thank you for such a helpful post - this is exactly what I was after!

And I'm not going to stop keeping my carnivorous animals... unlike me, they NEED meat, there is no way to turn a snake vegetarian and as I'm not able to farm my own rats and such at the moment the petshop stock are my only option. I understand I may be giving mixed messages to people as I still hunt and keep animals that consume other animals, but keeping my animals and hunting are two very important things to me.

 

[Kristy_07]

I'm not too sure why there are a bunch of meatos on here claiming that veggos are doing all the damage to the environment? How is that constructive to the discussion at all?

At the end of the day, we are all part of the environmental problem, so why try and be discouraging of any kind of dietary change that LadyJ or anyone else might want to make? Own leather shoes - part of the problem. Drive a car - part of the problem. Wear first-hand clothes - part of the problem. Caught a plane any where in your life - MAJOR part of the problem. The thing is, we live in a work where it's just about impossible to do EVERYTHING to help the environment, so you just do what you feel makes a difference and you can manage. What's wrong with that?

Just a bunch of stirrers, you are!! But we still loves ya

 

[Waterrat]

I can't speak for others but I said and I stand by it - if we ALL turned vegos, the environment would collapse.
Personally, I have nothing against people who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste of it but those who believe they're saving animal's lives or doing something good for their own health are fooling themselves. In many parts of Borneo that I visited, vegos are regarded as loonies with a luxurious habit that the local people can't afford nor can understand.
Sorry if touched the nerve but that's how I see it.

God

 

[cris]

In many parts of Borneo that I visited, vegos are regarded as loonies with a luxurious habit that the local people can't afford nor can understand.

Only in Borneo?

 

[Kristy_07]

Nice sign off, Michael

I think there's balance. There's also undeniable proof that the amount of meat Western society in particular is having unsustainable environmental impacts, not to mention the land that is used to grow crops to FEED the meat industry. So, it's probably fine that there are some veggos and some not-veggos. At the end of the day, the environment is going to hell in a handbasket at the moment, anyway, but it's still nice to think that you're contributing a LITTLE bit less by not eating meat, not driving a car, not buying leather, farting less, etc.

I haven't been to Borneo, but in Asia, being veggo is very common for religious reasons, and always has been. But it certainly doesn't seem to have an effect on the amount of loons... God, it's weird over here sometimes, vegetarian or not :shock:

 

[Waterrat]

I am sure in other parts of the world too. Intelligent people can see though it, primitive peoples can't understand it.

God (in hiding now)

 

[Laghairt]

I read a study recently that claimed the human brain would not have reached its current of sophistication if ancestral humans didn't eat meat. The study was well done and I agree with its findings. I guess in modern times people have a choice and can substitute meat for a myriad of alternatives with no negative impacts on their health.

Eating meat in moderation is definitely not a health risk, I don't think anyone has tried to claim that in this thread.

 

[Kristy_07]

Good point, anouc.

You'd better hide, God. Broccoli worldwide is plotting it's revenge as we speak.

 

[slim6y]

I can't speak for others but I said and I stand by it - if we ALL turned vegos, the environment would collapse.

God

Michael (AKA God) can I just ask a question in relation to this:

How will the environment collapse?

The reason I ask... the conversion of produce (eg grain) to beef is not 1:1 by any standards. Although we don't eat grass, in Australia and other parts of the world, grass won't sustain a heard of cattle alone. Not to mention the US corn industry would definitely collapse (there's a program about the corn industry - they were a bit to specific and it was horrifically scary what corn goes into - but never-the-less incredibly versatile).

So if we were to stop farming animals, and left just wild populations (or perhaps revert back to only native species in each country - I know, impossible to do) - then they themselves would have an impact... but a collapse?

Yes - the world economies would suffer... Not collapse....

I can't see 'collapse' being terribly plausible - disrupt... disturb... but collapse?

Nitrogenous fertilisers would definitely upset a beautiful eco-system balance... But, we already use them on our animal farms....

Now, I for one, LOVE to eat meat... I'm happy with the way it's treated and cooked...

I respect the perseverance of my vegan friend next to me at work... He's awesome! And he said pretty much this - if the world turned vegetarian (not vegan) then there would be less war and less hunger assuming logistics could be overcome (I've changed his words slightly to suit the context)... When asked - based on science or veganism... there wasn't a great answer.

Note: People in Borneo also eat anything that moves on its own accord - most bugs, pedes, arachnids... if it has legs, it's food.

I like that... but it still has to be fried in garlic....

 

[Waterrat]

Paul, there is a body of evidence that to feed the world's population with fruit and veg, all the forest would have to be replaced with agricultural fields to grow enough food for all, not to mention the demands for water. Where would the fertilizer come from if we didn't farm animals? To survive on pure vegetarian diet, you can't just eat easy grown species, proteins need to be substituted with nuts, etc, etc.. AND the wildlife would perish too as a consequence.

"Note: People in Borneo also eat anything that moves on its own accord - most bugs, pedes, arachnids... if it has legs, it's food." Not so, they eat pigs, buffalo, chickens, fish, sea food and in the poorer parts such as Kalimantan, they also eat monkeys, snakes, etc..

 

[slim6y]

God...

If however you just replaced farms with irrigated cropping land (as many many many farms are also irrigated and some intensively so) and fertilised at the same amounts (approximately) they're currently fertilised at (which most farms would require the green green grass and hence fertiliser) then...

I can't see a collapse and neither can I see what all the wildlife would perish as a consequence (if they haven't already).

Again, I love meat... and my meat fed brain dictates that the world's environmental condition would not necessarily improve, but I can not see a feasible reason for it to lead to destruction either... The fertiliser problem we have is already occurring - serpintine will not last another 100 years... Many intensive ammonia products require large amounts of energy, and as do the 'super' phosphates (could smell the sulfur from the fertiliser factory in Chirstchurch....).

So all means of farming is in reality an energy and resource intensive activity - and the balance we have now probably isn't as good as it could be - but unbalancing that may in fact cause a benefit... but unlikely a collapse.

As for the Borneo thing - I know they eat other things... gosh... this God doesn't listen any better than that other one (not you Bredli84, you're still my real god).... My suggestion was they ALSO eat anything with LEGS!!! Including those meaty carcasses and INSECTS etc....

Geeeeez... It's so hard for you to think down to our level... it must give you a headache (a brain the size of a planet and all.... hey.. you don't happen to be manically depressed too do you???)

Let the meat eaters argue it out....

 

[Laghairt]

Waterrat:

According to a 2006 United Nations initiative, the livestock industry is one of the largest contributors to environmental degradation worldwide, and modern practices of raising animals for food contributes on a "massive scale" to deforestation, air and water pollution, land degradation, loss of topsoil, climate change, the overuse of resources including oil and water, and loss of biodiversity. The initiative concluded that "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global." In 2006 FAO estimated that meat industry contributes 18% of all emissions of greenhouse gases. This figure was revised in 2009 by two World Bank scientists and estimated at 51% minimum.

Paul, there is a body of evidence that to feed the world's population with fruit and veg, all the forest would have to be replaced with agricultural fields to grow enough food for all, not to mention the demands for water. Where would the fertilizer come from if we didn't farm animals? To survive on pure vegetarian diet, you can't just eat easy grown species, proteins need to be substituted with nuts, etc, etc.. AND the wildlife would perish too as a consequence.

 

[Waterrat]

Paul, a massive T-bone is on the BBQ as we speak.

Only cattle, sheep and goats eat grass - most vegetables need rich soils that HAS TO BE regularly fertilized and watered..... ah, bugger this, the steak smells good!

lesser, omnivorous God

 

[cris]

The only real environmental problem in the world is overpopulation, its that simple.

 

[slim6y]

Back in 1996 I was charged with reading many statistical instruments that measured noticeable changes in NOx - well over 90% of the pollutant in the rural areas of Southern Canterbury was attributed to livestock, not horticultural.

The largest users of nitrogenous fertilisers... Livestock... not horticultural.

The largest users of phosphate fertilisers... Livestock... not horticultural.

Maybe much has changed in the 14 years since I was testing this - and that I don't doubt... But deforestation was mostly attributed to palm oil in the past few years, with live stock and then horticultural practices (excluding palm oil)....

Most vegetables - potatoes and carrots grow sustainable on low fertile lands - for example, again in my studies, the peat district of swampy north Christchurch is where the country's best potatoes are grown... Try raisin a cow on that land?

However... On saying that, their practices were very much far from sustainable - burning off the top layer of peat every year...

Most brassicas, legumes (pulses) all will survive in pretty poor conditions...

The best conditions are usually reserved for fast growing trees etc...

Most agricultural land that I have visited would suit the purpose for many vegetables and/or fruits... However, other conditions need to be factored in, not soil quality.

I've got to say - as far as god goes in this one... I'm throwing that bible out...

Meat and fruit/vege production is not sustainable regardless of which way we go... However, environmental collapse will not occur if we chose to go only one way...

Signed - an atheist (now).

Oh - and you do realise we fertilise grass - right????

PS - note that the DPI in Vic suggests that good fertile land is essential for livestock raring... in fact, I'd say that (as above) fertilisers are more widely used to raise livestock - than to raise a carrot.... As far as taste goes... I prefer the livestock... But at least a carrot isn't green!

 

[Kristy_07]

Anouc - that's why I'm a veggo

cris - you're right also. Overpopulation is the reason we need so much food products & leads to environmental degradation etc...

I can be veggo but stopping overpopulation is beyond me, me thinks...

 

[redbellybite]

I dont care what you eat really ..if your diet consists of lead base paint and asbestos fibres ..thats your business ...MY PEEEEEVE WASNT WITH WHAT YOU EAT ...BUT what SOME OF YOU CLAIM WHY YOU ARE VEGO .. DOUBLE STANDARDS doesnt wash ...personal health reasons? ...go for it ...to protect the enviroment? WAKE UP YOU ARE JUST AS RESPONSIBLE LIVING THE WAY YOU DO as any of us steak munching lover is ..

 

[ravan]

The only real environmental problem in the world is overpopulation, its that simple.

exactly!!!!!!

now, if everyone would just stop pro-creating for a while... the world would be a better place.

 

[redbellybite]

exactly!!!!!!

now, if everyone would just stop pro-creating for a while... the world would be a better place.

guarenteed there will be no more pro-creating from this little duck

 

[ravan]

guarenteed there will be no more pro-creating from this little duck

haha, now if only we could educate the youngin's...