cross breeding

[Kitah]

Difference between interbreeding dogs vs. 'interbreeding' snakes;

Dogs are the same species, and humans have just bred different breeds of this species- thus when breeding say a german shepherd with a golden retriever it is not a hybrid as both animals are the same species

snakes on the other hand, you dont have 'breeds'; each type is a different species, e.g. woma and bredli. if you breed those two snakes you create a hybrid as you are breeding two seperate species. This pretty much doesn't happen in the wild, its unaccepted and its illegal to do so.

 

[paul4]

Once again some good valid points made
Well i think, and this is purely my opinion that most of our native wildlife is doomed and it is just a matter of time.
With the greed of society always going to win as there is always someone lining another mates pocket on the side to get projects passed and land cleared etc and we just won’t stop it. As for the reintroduction of native wildlife back to the area it was wiped out from.. Question: why was it wiped out and what will prevent the same thing happening in the future? Mate i live in QLD and tried quite hard to get hold of a licence to keep a few macropods in the backyard as a low impact pet for the family and they basically said i had to own a small zoo/wildlife park etc. What a joke , considering you can pack the gun in the back of the ute and go out bush and kill a few if you feel the urge to. I was hoping to kick off having a kangaroo or wallaby as a pet as the norm for families instead of stupid bloody cats but not happening my friends..
Thats bureaucratic bullsh##t right there..
If the government want guaranteed species purity they can happily pay me to hold these animals for them for any unforeseeable disaster in the future..
A little off topic i know but im back. As for crossbreeding our reptiles, perhaps there is a bigger underlying reason , perhaps they dont want us to do this as it will create holes in there own legislation and unable them to control us with this whole load of crap of, Your animals are always the property of the crown as stated on our licence conditions to hold reptiles.
I wonder what the laws and regs are in other countries regarding the rights of ownership of your own reptiles?

 

[junglepython2]

if hybrids are so bad (and i somewhat agree) then why dont people get jiffed off about people breeding for the lack of. albino's, colour morphs, scaleless death adders for crying out loud...... these arent 'natural' AT ALL

if we are all with M.punja

They are much more natural then any hybrid, just about all of them are found 'naturally' in the wild just in small numbers.

 

[Tsubakai]

hi just a simple question is cross breeding illgal or legal

Its completely legal - in fact I have bred some taipan X diamond pythons this year. Absolutely gorgeous animals.

For every pair I sell I'm giving away an albino burmese python with its own little monkey jockey. They are trained to patrol your yard and attack any intruders with the laser beams I have cybernetically implanted into their skulls.

 

[m.punja]

if hybrids are so bad (and i somewhat agree) then why dont people get jiffed off about people breeding for the lack of. albino's, colour morphs, scaleless death adders for crying out loud...... these arent 'natural' AT ALL

if we are all with M.punja

Yea, please Kirby tell us all about it. I must be mistaken as I was under the impression the salt and pepper blue tongues were first found in the wild, I was also under the impression the albino stumpy was originally a wild caught as was the albino copperhead I've seen pics of. If Albinoism isn't a naturally occuring gene then were these escaped pets from some mad scientist? Besides who said I'm for or against Hybrids, I own a Hybrid, no intention on breeding it but I still have it, the question was asked was it legal or illegal and i answered to the best of my knowledge

 

[paul4]

Difference between interbreeding dogs vs. 'interbreeding' snakes;

Dogs are the same species, and humans have just bred different breeds of this species- thus when breeding say a german shepherd with a golden retriever it is not a hybrid as both animals are the same species

snakes on the other hand, you dont have 'breeds'; each type is a different species, e.g. woma and bredli. if you breed those two snakes you create a hybrid as you are breeding two seperate species. This pretty much doesn't happen in the wild, its unaccepted and its illegal to do so.

As per The Maquarie Dictionary
Hybrid: The offspring of two animals or plants of different races, BREEDS, varieties, species or genera.
Therefore the crossing of different dog breeds as per this definition in then a hybrid.

 

[mcmuffin125]

so if its ileagal why do so many people do it and not get in trouble

 

[cris]

Its always a hot topic isnt it and usually on a saturday night also... hmmm
Well i dont know how many animals in the Antaresia ( childrens python ) group that are being sold as one thing but look nothing like what they are being represented as, especially the stimsons. Some absolute shockers out there and these people , the owners of these animals in most cases have no idea they have a cross bred animal. I think you see it alot also with the carpet python group with the owners of the animals being none the wiser that they have an animal that is clearly not the pure locality it is labelled as. Womas and black headed pythons also are being bred together that are from either side of the continent purely for colour etc. These breedings are happening right under everyones nose and most people dont even know they are being decieved. As with alot of herpers they cannot identify an animals local simply from its appearance and even with years of experience sometimes it is just near impossible to identify with great accuracy some of these animals . It is a slow process this cross breeding disaster, just like cancer so most of us just dont see it and wont until it is to late. The sad thing is i dont believe we or the understaffed authorities can stop it. This is why as stated earlier by someone in this debate , that most animals are passed off as pure as the NPWS or EPA or whatever government body polices the issue does not make it possible for the breeders who are experimenting with jungle/diamond , Albino darwin/ coastal breedings for example to sell the offspring as what they are, crossbred animals and therefore we cant keep track of what is going on. I think most people would be honest in regards to their experimental breeding progeny if they were able to list it on there record books exactly what they have done.
Cross breeding happens alot with parrots etc and i dont know of anyone that has been prosicuted for such behaviour?
Just my observation

Im not really sure if sensible discussion is tolerated on APS anymore and no doubt this thread will be locked soon, but you are exactly right. IMO the horse has bolted and ppl have and will continue to breed hybrids regardless of the law, the best hope we have is bringing it out into the open rather than having it continue as a tolerated illegal activity.

The other issue is where to draw the line on how much hybridisation is OK, many have differant views and its obvious ppl will never agree, some attack cross subspecies hybrid breeders like a rabid pitbull yet breed X locality hybrids and think those that have a go at them for that are just fanatical. It really is a riduculous situation and i dont see any positive solutions coming foward.

 

[m.punja]

I'd be interested in knowing what you think olive's were crossed with to create the albino's

 

[herpkeeper]

Can someone please pass the pop corn !!!

 

[Retic]

Well as it's a recessive co dominant trait the only way to get an albino Olive is to cross an albino Darwin with a hypomelanistic Bredli then breed the offspring back to a Coastal which allegedly has a bit of Tully Jungle blood.

I'd be interested in knowing what you think olive's were crossed with to create the albino's

 

[cris]

As per The Maquarie Dictionary
Hybrid: The offspring of two animals or plants of different races, BREEDS, varieties, species or genera.
Therefore the crossing of different dog breeds as per this definition in then a hybrid.

Its amazing that with the amount of time this topic comes up and the fact there is a sticky thread clearly explaining what the word means very clearly that ppl still cant understand or simply dont know what the word means. Even though dictionaries arnt always the best for scientific defintions, this one is pretty good.

 

[daniel1234]

I must admit, it is only because I take an interest that I know that it is illegal. Here in SA you can buy a single snake with no permit. When you get your permit they don't tell you that you can't crossbreed (or anything else for that matter). It is in none of the very basic information provided. In fact buying a snake is as easy as buying any other pet from the shop, you don't need to know anything. What you do know is whatever the breeder tells you. My first hatchy would not feed and the breeder was no help, I figured it out myself (with research). So where do you actually find these laws? Isn't this why these questions keep being asked on APS? Here in SA nobody hands you a list of important do's and don'ts even if you do bother to get a licence for your first snake.

 

[chilli]

here we go. wasnt the thread about if it was illegal or not to cross breed? its been answered, YES.

well it's not that simple. hybridising species is illegal in queensland, there is definitely no law in nsw which prohibits such breedings. cross-breeding subspecies, such as jungles and md's is not even prohibited in queensland. i would point out that the same prohibition in queensland relates to mutations as well, and all the anti-crossing, keep it pure to the square km where they were captured brigade, have no problem with breeding albino olives or carpets(but have to be darwins) or macs(must be from 17km north of mt molloy though) or blue-tongues (they don't seem to care where these come from). they hide behind this "it's illegal" bs when it's convenient to support their lack of reasoning argument about crossing. if they had any integrity, they would obey all laws relating to mutations, but that wouldn't be convenient.

has no-one ever noticed that the promoters of the 'keep it pure' argument are generally the people who live in areas where their stock for sale is peculiar to that area.

 

[cris]

well it's not that simple. hybridising species is illegal in queensland,

The rules actually say something along the lines of it being illegal to knowingly breed hybrids or mutations of these native animals. To my knowledge these 2 words are not legally defined with relevance to this rule, it is ambigous and shows complete ignorance of what the words mean. If taken literally we could only legally breed clones such as parthenogenetic bynoe's geckos. It implies that breeding albinos and stuff fits into the same category. Apart from this technicallity i agree with what you are saying.

 

[Khagan]

so if its ileagal why do so many people do it and not get in trouble

Because it's illegal but pretty much never enforced, which pretty much nulls the whole thing and might as well be made legal.

 

[Australis]

has no-one ever noticed that the promoters of the 'keep it pure' argument are generally the people who live in areas where their stock for sale is peculiar to that area.

Licensing hasn't been around that long, and when their wasn't you would simply catch your own
animals, its hardly a revelation that this meant keeping local species..

 

[CHONDROS]

but its fine to cross a wa bhp with qld bhp which would never happen in the wild
coastels/diamondsljungles/md/darwins .......... are all carpets we have just name them so crossing all of them is the same
if they are sold for what they are go for it

 

[souldoubt]

well it's not that simple. hybridising species is illegal in queensland, there is definitely no law in nsw which prohibits such breedings. cross-breeding subspecies, such as jungles and md's is not even prohibited in queensland. i would point out that the same prohibition in queensland relates to mutations as well, and all the anti-crossing, keep it pure to the square km where they were captured brigade, have no problem with breeding albino olives or carpets(but have to be darwins) or macs(must be from 17km north of mt molloy though) or blue-tongues (they don't seem to care where these come from). they hide behind this "it's illegal" bs when it's convenient to support their lack of reasoning argument about crossing. if they had any integrity, they would obey all laws relating to mutations, but that wouldn't be convenient.

has no-one ever noticed that the promoters of the 'keep it pure' argument are generally the people who live in areas where their stock for sale is peculiar to that area.

Some 'keep it pure' people do happen to believe in nature and dont believe in manipulating it. I mean sure some species of carpet pythons naturally interbreed in the wild but that isnt common practice and why do we feel the need to manipulate everything...... to try and make an animal look 'prettier' just isnt a good enough justification

 

[notechistiger]

Chrondos, there is very little difference between a WA BHP and a QLD BHP- the main difference probably being colouring/patterning. However, the subspecies of Morelia spilota all have very large differences; size, colouring, body structure, usual climate (eg, a jungle versus a bredli), etc., etc. They were classified as different subspecies for a reason, whereas WA and QLD BHPs are not... they're just found in two different places.