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So just because they are here now we should just say stuffit and lets open the floodgates.

I never said anything about "opening the floadgates", I just said
We need to remove our heads from the sand and deal with what is here

NPWS do not have enough staff to enforce the law, not only that, most of those that have exotics are not licenced anyway and have no idea they have an exotic reptile, they just think it is a nice corn snake. These are the people that need to learn the laws not those that already have a reptile licence and know what the laws are. There needs to be better education for people that have no idea that their snake is exotic and illegal, along with this a licencing system.
 
Couldn't agree more SLACkra I think a licencsing system for all pet would be ideal though maybe not pratical.

Having more native animals as pet would be fantastic. I for one already have dunnarts instead of rats or mice (shouldn't confuse pet food as pets LOL) and there are many other native that make great pets.

Regards David
 
This is the same as saying that just because a few people commit murder we should get rid of the laws against murder and let anybody do it.

No really comparable is it??
 
Pete,

Talk to Dr. Bill Herrinton.. the guy who pioneered research on tortises!
 
i recomend you read some of the stuff on www.snakeshow.net . he says something along the line as why have dogs, cats, rabbits and ferrets as pets. we should have kangaroos as pets, wallabys, billbys ect. interesting guy and his snake presentation was kick a$$

While I agree keeping Aussie natives would be much better than exotic animals, you still have to keep in mind that an introduced animal is one that is introduced into an area where it does not naturally occur. So, say you kept a kangaroo as a pet and lived in an area in Australia where kangaroos do not naturally occur, you have still just introduced an animal which does not belong in that area and may still cause significant ecological harm... I do agree the harm would be significantly less though because the majority of furry Australian animals are herbivorous.
But thats a whole other topic.... :roll:
cheers
 
While I agree keeping Aussie natives would be much better than exotic animals, you still have to keep in mind that an introduced animal is one that is introduced into an area where it does not naturally occur. So, say you kept a kangaroo as a pet and lived in an area in Australia where kangaroos do not naturally occur, you have still just introduced an animal which does not belong in that area and may still cause significant ecological harm... I do agree the harm would be significantly less though because the majority of furry Australian animals are herbivorous.
But thats a whole other topic....
cheers

Being herbivorous hardly means the animal won't cause damage. Herbivores can be every bit as harmful as predators. Native animals are less likely to cause harm because they or their close relatives are likely to have had access to most areas on the mainland at some point in the past few thousand years, so if they aren't there now it's probably because they can't live there, rather than that they couldn't get there. Yes, there are exceptions and many of the best examples are probably reptiles, because of their (relatively) low dispersal capabilities.

I hate to agree with Brodie, but he has a very valid point with the tortoises. Everyone seems so sure that they couldn't possibly survive because they are slow and inoffensive, but keep in mind that they manage to make a good living in their natural homes.

The argument of "they can have cats, why can't we have boas" is a lot like saying "They can commit rape, why can't I commit murder?". One wrong doesn't justify another. If we want to complain about the hideous irresponsibility of cat laws, be become hypocrites if we use them as justification of legalising exotic herps.

There is no doubt that legalising exotics would lead to far more being kept. Has anyone noticed how many legally held reptiles escape? Go to a reptile meeting and talk to people or look through the archives on this site and see how many anectodes you get. I really don't see any benefit from legalising exotics. Yes they're here, but what would legalising it acheive? There are many illegally held exotic venomous snakes around, many species of cobras, vipers etc. Are we to legalise them? Everyone seems to say no... why the double standard? If 'getting your head out of the sand' is important, wouldn't it be most important of all for the highly venomous species?

Anyway, the point is moot. The authorities aren't budging and our squabling is falling on deaf ears.
 
Brodie_W said:
Pete,

Talk to Dr. Bill Herrinton.. the guy who pioneered research on tortises!
Got a contact or references.
I can find an R Herrington and a Holly Herrington but no Herrinton, theyve done research on gopher tortoises in the US.
I know what your saying Brodie but you said it as a generalisation so I threw one back at you.
Kiwis and Eastern Bluetongues also occupy a niche that is taken up by tortoises in other parts of the world except..............for all the similarities there are a lot of differnces.
 
-they are here
-something proactive must be done about it
-the way we are going now... its not getting any better

i refuse to keep exotics due to the threat of losing my australian animals and for no other reason. if there wasnt a threat, or if i didnt want to keep aussie herps i'd go absolutely balistic with exotics
 
I have to say that as an outsider, your laws seem pretty odd. But then I remember the whole "rabbit thing." We've had some bad citters get loose here (nutria, Asian Swamp Eel, killer bees, kudzu), but I don't think we've had anything quite on the scale of devastation that you have with rabbits and cane toads. You can get just about any snake you want here, and so far it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. I'm not aware of any areas in the US where ball pythons have taken over, even though they are one of the most commonly imported reptiles.

I guess it seems like justifiable paranoia. It's really a shame that you can't keep all of these terrific pets, but I can certainly understand the reasoning and circumstances behind your laws. And believe me, the irony is not lost when I am able to legally keep and breed anthill pythons here.

-Imp
 
So........ why are these examples no condisered exotic to the area:

1/ A Veriegata in Sydney

2/ A Mcdowelli in Sydney or NT or Vic

and all the other combinations.

I'm not having a go at anyone, I would just like an opinion or 2 :)
 
Quarantined , certified healthy and without disease and surgically or otherwise rendered sterile.[or males only?] All expenses paid by the importer. Non venomous sp only. Licensed and records kept.
Importer must first pass exam of qualification to care for and appropriatly house the said sp.
Why not? Bring on the tortises! , afterall, better in my care than dieing in its desert burrow after being poisoned by rednecks with kerosene and the like to flush equally unfortunate rattlesnakes! :D

p.s. on reflection, cb only should also apply i think!
 
Absolutely but why bother importing anything, there are loads here that could be certified as safe, get them from zoos so they don't just get killed off as soon as they hatch. If someone can explain the sense in doing that I would like to hear it, I know for a fact it happens.
If we have to import then there are breeders all around the world with the credentials to supply the animals.
There will always be those against it and always those for it and of course some fence sitters. This doesn't have to be a divisive issue as some would have it become, we can all agree to disagree :)
 
There are people in QLD keeping Oblong Turtles. They're found here in the south west of WA. What if they escaped? Why aren't they considered to be exotic?
 
People in most States keep exotics, they may not be from overseas but they are no less exotic than any other and the chances of them escaping and breeding is no less (incredibly small).
 
oh yeah id have me some carolanie three toed box tortoses from new zealand qwick as if they allowed us to import cost me nothing for the animals couldnt ever see them wiping out natives :lol:
 
Gee whiz, so many arguments.....I don't know where to start.....

:p

Hix
 
Quarantined , certified healthy and without disease and surgically or otherwise rendered sterile.[or males only?] All expenses paid by the importer. Non venomous sp only. Licensed and records kept.

now that is realistic. they should make it legale to keep exotics IF they are steralised and its legal (with special permits) to import exotics IF they are sterilised. people shipping em in have to pay for them to get checked out by quarentine vets to make sure they snip snipping was done properly.

that is the most viable possibility to import and keep exotics in aus. however the risk involved even with that is still there.

andrew
 
SLACkra said:
IF they are sterilised. people shipping em in have to pay for them to get checked out by quarentine vets to make sure they snip snipping was done properly.

Hmmmm........has anyone ever tried to sterilise a snake? Or a lizard? And once sterilised, how would one "make sure the snip snipping was done properly."? By opening them up again and inspecting the vet's handiwork?

I'm not a vet, but even I know that performing that kind of surgery on a hatchling python would be risky to the animal. Perhaps Geckodan, as a vet, can give us a more infoprmed opinion on the whole sterilisation idea.

And before anybody says "you sterilise adults, not hatchies", if there were legal avenues to import then it would be hatchies (or small lizards) that would make up the great bulk of the imports because of the cost of freighting.


I'm not knocking the idea, SLACkra and Instar, it's just not practical as far as I'm concerned.

:p

Hix
 
Hence the after thought of males only Hix. Although im sure some folk would envision your male sulcata out in the great Aussie wilderness, humping everything with a shell and creating hybrids! :D
Crikey, there goes the 'pure' continent eh. lol
 
The australia wide amnestyesulted from pressure to do something about the exotic problem,does anyone know the stats on what was handed in if any? Just would like to see what it achieved thats all.
 
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