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Kirby you say "who are you to assume" etc etc... but here YOU are assuming everyone elses beardies are less healthy than yours.. How do you know that? If these people say they have grown healthy beardies to adulthood by their way of feeding - they are right.

Your way probably works too (though to me I struggle to see how a wild adult beardie would find 100 crickets etc a day!!) but that doesn't mean it is the only right way to do things. You can grow a python really big really fast but it isn't neccessarily excellent for him.

Not wanting to start a fight, as I know next to nothing about beardies, just making an observation..
 
How could you possibly get your beardie eating 50 crix a day between 3 feeds?
My guys are hatchy's from this season and have only just gone up to medium crix ( but both are happy to to take woodies but i havent got very many that are small enough in my colony of around 1000 yet) and are only taking between 4-8 a feed twice a day usually sometimes less and i feed until refusal..they also take buc choy leaves and some other greens and dandelions but only if i tong feed it to them.
Mine are still 55mm STV (male) and 65mm STV (female) and probably only just over a month old
 
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I feed my beardi 35 to 40 medium crix once a day, He's 8 1/2 mths. I measured a month ago and he/she was 14cm STV. I don't know if this is normal as he's is my first dragon but he is very healthy and I thiink happy too
 
well i guess every dragon ive seen and many other people around the world, have 'larger apetites'..

the risks youve explained about your accused 'force feeding' are unproven even with snakes.

explain your assumption that this would shorten lifespan? have you tested this, got results? or is this just your theory? its very faulty in the fact that an animal with more food, more nutriants etc. would have a more likely chance to lifelonger, harder and healthier than that with little food. can you provide these 'clearly shown in other reptiles'

for all that ive read, there are no proven defects of 'skaarfing'. not that the diet i promote is skaarfing at all.

impaction, lol. you obviousely dont know how impaction works. with the apropriate temp gradiant, a bearded dragon is capable of digesting and breaking down the cartilidge or small pinkie mice, and even bones. i dont suppose you have ever seen a dragon eating 100+ roaches a day, so i suggest you dont point your theories as possible fact on what they can or cannot digest, or thoughts on them 'exploding' as we've seen in some juvenile members before through comments.

i was aware after i pushed 'post reply' that i didnt mention 'IMO' i apologise.

PhilK, you are right, there are many ways to 'grow' a dragon, but why not make it healthy and filling. edging a dragon along slowely, giving 'just enough' to keep it going, isnt fundimentally promoting growth IMO.

having small apetites if often due to incorrect temps or somethign wrong in the care. temps, hydration, suppliments, and stress.

in the wild, the strognest survive, those who grow fast, healthy genes and alot of food survive to breed. tens of thousands are kille don our roads, and a whoel lot more are eaten as prey. and die of impaction, via food soil and other foreign objects. its a harsh environment, and very much survival of the fitest.
 
Kirby the fact is in the wild animals do not eat all that much. Some pythons survive beautifully covered in ticks and eating once a month, but you'll never find that in captivity.

Your beardie can survive just as well on a much smaller diet (I would guess) but how you feed it is obviously your way and your business. Just the same as others feed their animals in the way they do and neither party can say the other is wrong if both dragons are healthy.
 
well actually how much you should be feeding your baby beardies depends on the individual my two babys from the same clutch eat differently cause they are very different in size
herps dont grow at a constant weight/ size ratio like mammals do it depends on a varity of conditions temperature, humidity, enclosure size, number of dragons kept with, where the dragon spends most of his time etc etc etc i could go on forever..... but i think you get the picture
 
I just don't agree with feeding 50-100 crix a day as I believe it is too much for them making them grow too quickly to adult size in 7 months. like with turtles which also have a high metabolism, feed it too much it grows too fast reducing life span. I believe with beardies not to "give in" and feed them as much as they want as they pretty much want to eat all the time like tutles.
how would a smaller appetite have somthing wrong with care if the tank was fine temps?they are all different
how do you define a healthy beardie?how big and fat they are could mean they are unhealthy with too much body fat on them
 
Geese kids.... to the defense of Kirby- there to me is no such thing as POWER FEEDING!
in the wild if they find food they would eat it & not think that that was enough for that day & eat no more as they are not in a restricted diet!
in areas of our beloved country that have more infestations of insects you will see reptiles...particular lizards that are robust ,strong & wanted!
and mealworms are nothing but fat...so they are needed to to build up for a adult! before winter as a adult needs excess fat to store while they are in brumation so as their body does not eat itself away & they wake up!
so as some but not all do ..........i do not have a minimum to count per feed but if they are hungry they will eat!

Sockbat-sounds like yours is going well now...WELLDONE!

How can you MAKE a animal eat ...OPEN its mouth & force food down!!!! DONT THINK SO!!!!!
if they are hungry they will eat...........
from hatch mine get at least 4 attempts to eat per day & average 3-4 pr feed...add this!
then at 3-4 weeks 3 feeds....& they usually increase their consumption to 6-8 pr feed
at 8-12wks generally i drop back a feed of live but then they are eating green readily all day!
So now i will speak of the youngest member of my lair.....Faith
at hatch............10 cm & 2g when i got her
4wks.................12cm & 5g
8wks.................15cm & 10g
12wks...............19cm & 17g
16wks...............24cm & 32g
she is not the biggest at this age... but comes with average of my gals.........
Merlin........well he stands out on his own...but dont have data at 4wks
7wks.................17cm & 21g
13wks...............27cm & 69g
17wks................35cm & 155g
any way at 6 mnths 40cm & 257g.........8mths 47.5cm & 399g........10mnths 48cm & 467g
he has just turned 1 ( happy birthday Merlin!!!) but i am doing all updates on the 1st Jan...& he has already mated with a large rusty orange female & egg are in the oven!

Wasnt this about vegies...........look give a pm & i'll help

over all you would not restrict a human baby.........just get your head around it.......its quite obvious that you are worried & we are all here to help.
 
I just don't agree with feeding 50-100 crix a day as I believe it is too much for them making them grow too quickly to adult size in 7 months. like with turtles which also have a high metabolism, feed it too much it grows too fast reducing life span. I believe with beardies not to "give in" and feed them as much as they want as they pretty much want to eat all the time like tutles.
how would a smaller appetite have somthing wrong with care if the tank was fine temps?they are all different
how do you define a healthy beardie?how big and fat they are could mean they are unhealthy with too much body fat on them

1. bearded dragons do not have shells that restrict their growth ;)
2. turtles are different to beardies ;) as dragon_lady said, in the wild if they have food they will eat it. your theory on shortenign life span is rubbish in a factual world. you have no proof or evidence to say the least. a animal with more food, and the ability to make the best fo this in the wild will be stronger, healthier and bigger increasing it risks of survival.
3. you said your self, they have hgih metabolisms, you are harming them with small diets. they use up the energy and nutriants quickely, ultimately slowing their growth due to lack of.
4. if the cage temps were fine, along withthe rest of the care, apetite would rise to a normal level as would a wild beardie having optomistic feedings, having large stomaches to fill.

- i define a healthy beardie as one who is growign fast, has good spongy fat stores, on tail base, legs and cranium. a full stomache, less baggy skin along the back, ribs, bones or spine not showing. an active (as active as they can get) daily play. and upright or erect head, movement during the day, good solid faeces,
clear eyes, nostils and ears. clean and clear teeth, non droopy eyelids. healthy shedding, and good diet.

- looking 'fat' with a plump stomache is VERY different than being 'obese.' often fatty liver disease and kidney, can only be foudn be a trained veterinarian via tests, but this is usually due to an adult diet too high in protein foods, and mis use of fatty foods such as mealworms or waxworms. plump fat stores are good, in the event of treatment or brumation.

blakeblake, you have as of yet no support for your claims. got any?

dragonlady, thanks. you are right on alot of things, the only thing i disagree on is mealworms. they are not needed as part of the diet, to build up fat stores or growth into adulthood. roaches and crix as well as silkworms. do an optimum job with providing energy and protein as well as apropriate fats to suppliment stores. during growth the protein is used to grow. this is why they eat less protein feeders as they become adult. this lesser amount still supplies them with energy and fat they may have lost during energy spurts or burnt off. mealworms will only increase un-needed amoutns of fat. IMO
 
Kirby ...you dont have to use them...you are right... mine as juvies & on see them approx every 21 days ..thats it
also eat woodies ,crickets,pinkies,silkworms,earthworms & vegies NOT DICED...same size as live if not bit bigger.....you dont have to defend yourself ...most will eventually understand that if they want there beardie in particular to exceed 6-8yrs...........all heritage on mine are excess from 11-16yrs so i have lines of good stock
then they will find better health plans with there collection or loose them quicker........what you put in you get back...........put 10 crickets in ,,,well not much time back!... but alas most see that they love their animals of all descriptions & dont want to waste their money in the long run...& some dont figure that 4 feeds as a hatchie means at 12mnths you only feed once every 3-4 days on live! with veg in between.
 
Kirby, this is what is was informed when i purchased mi beardie a while ago of a rep vet. but from what dragon lady has said with her 11-16 year olds im am starting to think the person I purchased mine off MAY not have been correct in some areas. I still cannot get my head aroung 100 a day, how do you fit in 4 feeding sessions a day?I still don't agree about the size judgements of how big one should be in a certain amount of months. My beardie was at 50cm+ at 8 months and i was feeding him 5-10 bugs a day + veges
 
1. bearded dragons do not have shells that restrict their growth ;)
No, but they have bones that grow just as fast as turtle shells...

2. turtles are different to beardies ;) as dragon_lady said, in the wild if they have food they will eat it. your theory on shortenign life span is rubbish in a factual world. you have no proof or evidence to say the least. a animal with more food, and the ability to make the best fo this in the wild will be stronger, healthier and bigger increasing it risks of survival.
Since we're bringing up the "wild" debate, do you think a dragon will readily have access too 100 insects in one day?

3. you said your self, they have hgih metabolisms, you are harming them with small diets. they use up the energy and nutriants quickely, ultimately slowing their growth due to lack of.
How are they using up energy insufficiently? They only use energy when running around, and DIGESTING FOOD THAT JUST PASSES THROUGH THEM. Once they've got their nutrients for the day I'd assume that the kidneys and liver dispose of the excess through their excreta - hence wasting energy.

- SNIP

blakeblake, you have as of yet no support for your claims. got any?
Yeah, he's got my support.

dragonlady, thanks. you are right on alot of things, the only thing i disagree on is mealworms. they are not needed as part of the diet, to build up fat stores or growth into adulthood. roaches and crix as well as silkworms. do an optimum job with providing energy and protein as well as apropriate fats to suppliment stores. during growth the protein is used to grow. this is why they eat less protein feeders as they become adult. this lesser amount still supplies them with energy and fat they may have lost during energy spurts or burnt off. mealworms will only increase un-needed amoutns of fat. IMO
Define un-needed amounts of fat....


Kirby, this is what is was informed when i purchased mi beardie a while ago of a rep vet. but from what dragon lady has said with her 11-16 year olds im am starting to think the person I purchased mine off MAY not have been correct in some areas. I still cannot get my head aroung 100 a day, how do you fit in 4 feeding sessions a day?I still don't agree about the size judgements of how big one should be in a certain amount of months. My beardie was at 50cm+ at 8 months and i was feeding him 5-10 bugs a day + veges
Remember that this is Australia, and food is often a scare thing.
If you constantly feed them 5-10 a day, then they'll adapt to that menu quite well. If they're happy and healthy the way they are, then I don't think there's anything to worry about.
 
explain 'scare' thing. and yes, what a mighty fine observation.. this IS australia.. good boy.

your support is nothing, 'evedentual support'.. come on people. get realistic.

unless you have any scientific research or proven reason that growing too fast in bearded dragons is dangerous. and not relating them to a COMPLETELY different species such as a turtle. good day duke and blakeblake.

'un-needed amounts of fat' is obviousely excess amounts, that the liver and kidneys deal with. when they are left to deal with too much they develope kidney and liver disease. this is life threatening, and common in adults fed a diet too hgih in fat. a juvenile diet high in fat can also contribute. think heart disease with build up etc. with a kidney or liver.
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They only use energy when running around, and DIGESTING FOOD THAT JUST PASSES THROUGH THEM.
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no.. they use the energy to grow and develope. :D it doesnt just pass. you dont understand how this works obviousely. what is passed in the faecle matter and urates is excess nutritants and solids that are of no use o the body. this will happen on a small diet or large. the body absorbs apropriate amounts use din growth and develope ment. if a dragon with a high diet is growing faster. it is getting enough to grow etc. a dragon with a small diet is clearly not getting enough to develop. thus it grows slower.

unless you have somehthing factual, proven or collective to say, lay down on the 'ive got his back' and 'your wrogn because i said so' buisness. it means nothign in proving a point, it obviousely what you rely on.
 
Ok, I'm not relating any of this to other species. I'm just saying that I think there's a maximum growth rate for a lizard.
If you feed it in excess, the body has to work harder to digest it all.

I'd imagine that there's a key rate of digestion for a bearded dragon. For humans it takes around 12 hours to pass "light" foods.

You've stated my own concern in your counter just then.
"you dont understand how this works obviousely. what is passed in the faecle matter and urates is excess nutritants and solids that are of no use o the body."
OBVIOUSLY, the excess nutrients have to be processed by the liver and kidneys to be turned into the urates etc.
Hence using more energy to process it.
 
OK this thread is funny, i asked how to get my beardie fudge onto veggies and is 9-11 crix a day fine for that age?OK then Kirby, i just measured my beardie. When i got him 7.5 cm's, 2 weeks later 9.5 cm's, today 12 cm's so in 3 weeks he grew 4.5 cm eating anyfrom from 5-12 crix a day and 2-3 bites of endive in that time only. (Presumed)She is only 5-6 weeks old.Explain that!
Cheers
 
any knowledgable reptile veterinarian will tell you the amount of 10 small sized crickets are not enough for a dragon that age, especially in a quickely growing species. you have no evidence to back your claims, your opinions are no more special or knowledgable than mine or anybody elses on this board, they are opinions. and obviousely your having a hard time understandign evidence or factual support. 'im backing him' lol

he grew 1 cm in a week, this isnt much. and supposedly 4.5 in 3 weeks. again this result is not overwhelming, during a spurt of growth it is not unusual in my experiences for a dragon to grow 1-2 inches in a week. which is 2.5-5 times more that your dragons growth. the amount of dragons ive seen grow healthy, with out 'side effects' not that there are any. and live long and happy lives. are perfectly happy healthy, and doing extremely well.
adult size in 7-9 months is not unusual in beardies, not other species. in 9 months a human embryo grows THOUSAND of times its size, does it have side effects if the mother eats a healthy diet?
 
1 cm in a week, because he wouldnt eat for 4 days just settling in. im locking this thread and Kirby in time i hope you learn, TO STOP DICTATING OTHERS HOW TO BRING UP THEIR ********* DRAGONS, ok?
Chees, have a great day:)
 
Does anyone have any actual proof or evidence as to what would be a healthy diet for a growing beardie?

So far I've seen no facts or evidence of any sort... only opinion.
 
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