FAT beardie
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Yeah... according to the American forums, beardies do not know how to drink from a water dish 
shock: I guess my beardies missed that memo :shock and regular baths are essential for 'proper' hydration - they recommend three or four times per week, oh and don't forget to make sure the vent area is right down in the water
While you're at it, don't forget to tell your beardie that you love it at LEAST once a day ... they die of a broken heart otherwise, you know ...
shock: I guess my beardies missed that memo :shock and regular baths are essential for 'proper' hydration - they recommend three or four times per week, oh and don't forget to make sure the vent area is right down in the water While you're at it, don't forget to tell your beardie that you love it at LEAST once a day ... they die of a broken heart otherwise, you know ...
dragon lady
Very Well-Known Member
I use a kitty litter tray for mine for water.....some dont have any idea!
My opinion is my own ...it works for me..& if i get asked for advice i will always say demand fed or reptiles that are allowed to eat what they want on their feeding day will prove to be healthier,bigger & better in quality for breeding ... as in the long run we all want our reptiles/animals to be the healthiest ,the best in quality that we can get them to be ......... & as for veg tips with beardies ..as i said PM me( think that was on page 2?) if you want my ideas, if not its ok.
My opinion is my own ...it works for me..& if i get asked for advice i will always say demand fed or reptiles that are allowed to eat what they want on their feeding day will prove to be healthier,bigger & better in quality for breeding ... as in the long run we all want our reptiles/animals to be the healthiest ,the best in quality that we can get them to be ......... & as for veg tips with beardies ..as i said PM me( think that was on page 2?) if you want my ideas, if not its ok.
ozianimals
Well-Known Member
I have wild beardies on my property and I don't see them having a bath every week (although there is one there for the horse and alpacas) and we definately do not have more than 100 crix in the area four times a day just for the beardies. All of the wild beardies that I have seen and caught as a kid were all body width about the same as there head and if they feel threatened they will bloat to the size that most people keep there beardies. Most people do harm there beardies by over feeding them. They should be lean animals and to grow a reptile too fast is not healthy. They will only grow to a certain size before they start to head down hill.
Kirby you were talking about people using different species to compare and how you shouldn't do this yet you use the growth of a human fetus compared to a hatched beardy.....does not make sense.
Also a beardy should take longer than 12 months to reach full size if grown at the correct rate not be a full adult in 7 months. The person you are getting advice from is wrong......
You are asking for proof. How old are your beardies and how old is the average of a wild beardy.............When you can give us correct answers for these questions then maybe everyone else in this industry will look at things differently..................
Kirby you were talking about people using different species to compare and how you shouldn't do this yet you use the growth of a human fetus compared to a hatched beardy.....does not make sense.
Also a beardy should take longer than 12 months to reach full size if grown at the correct rate not be a full adult in 7 months. The person you are getting advice from is wrong......
You are asking for proof. How old are your beardies and how old is the average of a wild beardy.............When you can give us correct answers for these questions then maybe everyone else in this industry will look at things differently..................
NinaPeas
Very Well-Known Member
I have only seen my 7yr old female drink a coupld of times out of her waterdish, but then I don't watch her 24/7. They will drink when they are thisty, not a hard concept to understand
I feed mine lots of vegies and crickets, and once a week a weaner mouse. I avoid things like cabbage/sprouts, as I have had the unpleasant experience of some animals dying due to being bloated from the gassy food.
Just keep offering a wide variety of small chopped vegies and fruit (not too small, then it can lead to mouth infections and things like that because they just swallow, not chew) and your beardie will eventually get the idea. I founf it helped with mine when it was young, to move the lettuce around a bit, so it looked 'alive'.
Hope all that helps
I feed mine lots of vegies and crickets, and once a week a weaner mouse. I avoid things like cabbage/sprouts, as I have had the unpleasant experience of some animals dying due to being bloated from the gassy food.
Just keep offering a wide variety of small chopped vegies and fruit (not too small, then it can lead to mouth infections and things like that because they just swallow, not chew) and your beardie will eventually get the idea. I founf it helped with mine when it was young, to move the lettuce around a bit, so it looked 'alive'.
Hope all that helps
Yeah... according to the American forums, beardies do not know how to drink from a water dish
While you're at it, don't forget to tell your beardie that you love it at LEAST once a day ... they die of a broken heart otherwise, you know ...
LOL, don't forget to whipe his bum when he has a pooo as well, clean his teeth and make sure his missus is waxed and goes to a beauty salon, especially if you want them to breed.....
OH!! Don't forget the Barry White music in the background and some candles.....LOL
Funny thread.:lol:
I wish I knew all this info before I starting breeding beardies years ago.......
Nephrurus
Very Well-Known Member
While you're at it, don't forget to tell your beardie that you love it at LEAST once a day ... they die of a broken heart otherwise, you know ...
Be careful not to tell them you love them TOO much..... I made this mistake, and some of my hatchlings died. I got them autopsied and the results were "Died from exploded heart, from loving the owner too much".
-H
bathing is helpfull, as it helps with shedding and hyrdration as does with a snake, ive read some of you even have showers with your snakes (thats weird.. ) and as chris said, makes easy clean up. i dont beleive its life threatenign to not do it. but it sure is helpfull..
and wow miss b, you sure change character when jumping on the band waggon, as you too are a member and freqent poster there..
i understand the bandwaggon and your refusal to accept different methods, especially those with yankie agreance. and sure you can do it your way. but mockign only makes your self look stupid. although some of the comments are funny.
i have one dragon who will bathe its self all day if it could, and drink happily from a dish. another will refuse, but will drink up in a bath, and not from a dish. every dragons different.
and wow miss b, you sure change character when jumping on the band waggon, as you too are a member and freqent poster there..
i understand the bandwaggon and your refusal to accept different methods, especially those with yankie agreance. and sure you can do it your way. but mockign only makes your self look stupid. although some of the comments are funny.
i have one dragon who will bathe its self all day if it could, and drink happily from a dish. another will refuse, but will drink up in a bath, and not from a dish. every dragons different.
Kirby said:and wow miss b, you sure change character when jumping on the band waggon, as you too are a member and freqent poster there..
Haha. My opinion is the same, regardless of which board I am posting on. Here is a quote from a post I made on the American forums, when the topic of bathing beardies arose:
Miss B said:So you are saying that bathing is essential for beardies, to keep them hydrated??
What about those poor beardies in the outback of Australia - who rounds them up and gives them their baths three times a week?I'm not trying to be rude, but most Aussie beardie owners think this notion that beardies must be bathed three times a week is absurd.
Originally Posted by Miss B
So you are saying that bathing is essential for beardies, to keep them hydrated??
What about those poor beardies in the outback of Australia - who rounds them up and gives them their baths three times a week?I'm not trying to be rude, but most Aussie beardie owners think this notion that beardies must be bathed three times a week is absurd.
LOL Miss B, I have bred 100s of beardies over the years, more so earlier in earlier days of keeping herps and have never bathed any at all. Can't see why you would need to bath a lizard that lives in some of the driest parts of the country. They are a funny bunch over there....LOL. I did always keep a water bowl in the enclosures for them if they desired a drink. They are not dumb animals and can work out where the water is quite quickly. I also fed them as much as they wanted all their lives, never had a problem, just not every day as adults. Fed them eveything from cat/dog food, pink,fuzzy and weaner mice, rat pups and fuzzies, crickets, woodies, bok choy, capsicum, celery tops, carrots etc etc. Never had any die and always had good healthy multiple clutches. I don't have them anymore, but a couple of my original breeders live with a friend and they are still producing clutches 8 or 9 years on and still going great.
Cheers
Daz
And here I was thinking that a dedicated bunch of beardie lovers were making regular trips out into the outback with their rubbermaids full of warm water to give all the wild beardies their daily bathtime :lol:
Yeah, I keep water dishes in my enclosures too and my beardies are quite happy to drink from them. It's obvious that in the States the beardies get 'babied' a lot, which has led to various weird little myths about their husbandry requirements.
Yeah, I keep water dishes in my enclosures too and my beardies are quite happy to drink from them. It's obvious that in the States the beardies get 'babied' a lot, which has led to various weird little myths about their husbandry requirements.
...
I wish I knew all this info before I starting breeding beardies years ago.......
Dont worry mate, sensai Kirby will show you what you are doing wrong
bitey
Very Well-Known Member
hehe, thats me,...!!
the beardies also join me in the shower once theyve pooped in their daily bath,....theyre huge fans of the shower!!
I see a very knowledgable reptile vet who keeps beardies himself and he told me that 5-6 crix twice a day is fine for young beardies. He also told me that by 9 months of age beardies should only be eating crix / woodies twice a week (dusted with calcium and vits) and fruits and veggies (as varied as possible) the rest of the time. This is how to raise a beardie to live a long and healthy life. He saw my two when they were 9 months and they both weighed about 220g and were about 38-40cm long and he said they were a good size / weight for their age.
As he is a qualified vet who has a lot of experience with reptiles, I will take his advice over anyone elses, but taking on everyones experiences and opinions is always useful too.
In response to the other question at the beginning of this thread regarding how to get beardies to eat veggies - as someone else stated, they will usually just start eating them at some stage. I got my two at about 6 weeks old and offered them veggies every day, but it took them about two months before they started eating the veggies.
Clairebear
Well-Known Member
maybe they bathe them over in America because of humidity differences. Australia is a very humid place... maybe the beardies over there aren't getting the air moisture or something... i have NO idea if this is the case it's just what i thought of reading through the thread?
JKretzs613
Well-Known Member
Hello
Hello,
I just wanted to comment on this thread! I just wondered why everyone was giving Kirby such a hard time? He is a fellow Aussie who really tries to help. I would think you would support each other not tear each other down. :shock:
He is on the US forum alot, as well, & does a great job helping people out.
The feeding of 50+ crickets a day is pretty much a nationwide standard, as well as in Germany & other countries. I am pretty sure that when he talkes about 100 crickets a day, they are not the large crickets as he is referring to baby & juvie dragons which do have a large requirement for protein.
The skeletal structure does require more food, just in general at that growing age. The first year of life sets them up for life, so to speak. You can really stunt their growth severely by not feeding correctly during that time frame. They technically, should reach their maximum growth in length by 1 year or shortly thereafter. The 2nd year of life is spent filling out & maturing.
We suggest cutting back the protein at roughly 10-12 months, but most of the time, they naturally do it on their own as their instinctual behavior sets in. If a dragon is not hungry, they usually will not eat.
Alot of you are saying that there is no way that they would find that much food in the wild. Well, it depends on the time of year & the area. There are reasons other than the weather, that they go into brumation. Food is very plentiful during the spring & summer, but falls off during the fall & winter so brumation is a natural thing to do because of food sources being low primarily. I have a feeling though, if they are finding alot of food in one region, that they tend to stick to areas where they are finding more food, & move around to find more food. Survival of the fittest is how it happens in the wild. They may live in dry areas, sure, but from every documentation that I have read states that they spend a good amount of time finding water & digging burrows where it is cooler & possibly damp to cool off during the summertime so they can preserve water in the heat of the day.
The problem lies with keeping them captivity. Dragons in the wild are different than ones kept in captivity. In the wild, the gradients are different, & they are not cooped up in a dry tank, with heat almost all day long. Being in a tank tends to dry them out much more than being out in the wild, so, there really is no comparison.
We are talking about dragons in captivity, not in the wild. So, if they are leaner in the wild because they are not getting enough food, then, why would we not want to provide more for them in captivity. The only time that too much protein contributes to obesity, renal failure or other health problems is when too much is fed when they are adults & they don't need it.
I do not live in Australia, but I do know several people who live over in your country in Bundaberg. They frequently see wild barbatas. So, speaking of dragons in general, I have a feeling most of you are referring to how our dragons in the US look which are 100% Pogona Vitticeps with alot of them being German Giant cross.
The Vitticeps are much rounder shaped in appearance than the wild dragons that you may be used to seeing such as the Pogona Barbata, so, again, you cannot say that our dragons here in the US are fat. That really is an unfair statement, as we do not have any Barbatas, only Vitticeps. Of course, the vitticeps in the wild may not quite look like your captive bred ones, or ours either, just due to the fact they always have to compete for food, or find it, but that doesn't mean that we need to starve them either.
The whole point of keeping them in captivity is to provide them a full & long life, unlike what most of them would get in the wild because of predators.
So if you want to make fun of us americans for holding & loving our dragons, or putting them in fleece blankies every night at bed, then go ahead. However, for those of you who may be mill breeders & have never come close to experiencing the closeness of holding a dragon for the sheer love of doing so, are greatly missing out.
That is the difference in large breeders who only breed for money & hobbyists who either breed selectively, or just not at all.
I really resent being made fun of because our husbandry is different or we choose to spend tons of money on our lighting. Our lighting ROCKS over here, & I am proud of it. I do tons of research on lighting, & am working closely with Dr. Frances Baines, from the UK, constantly to help gather data regarding lighting, etc, to help her with testing to ensure that the lighting is optimal & safe.
The only thing that Kirby might be guilty of is being very persistent & passionate about how he feels about bearded dragons. I don't see what is so wrong about that, as most people never really find their true passion in life, but I believe that he has, just like I have.
Tracie
Hello,
I just wanted to comment on this thread! I just wondered why everyone was giving Kirby such a hard time? He is a fellow Aussie who really tries to help. I would think you would support each other not tear each other down. :shock:
He is on the US forum alot, as well, & does a great job helping people out.
The feeding of 50+ crickets a day is pretty much a nationwide standard, as well as in Germany & other countries. I am pretty sure that when he talkes about 100 crickets a day, they are not the large crickets as he is referring to baby & juvie dragons which do have a large requirement for protein.
The skeletal structure does require more food, just in general at that growing age. The first year of life sets them up for life, so to speak. You can really stunt their growth severely by not feeding correctly during that time frame. They technically, should reach their maximum growth in length by 1 year or shortly thereafter. The 2nd year of life is spent filling out & maturing.
We suggest cutting back the protein at roughly 10-12 months, but most of the time, they naturally do it on their own as their instinctual behavior sets in. If a dragon is not hungry, they usually will not eat.
Alot of you are saying that there is no way that they would find that much food in the wild. Well, it depends on the time of year & the area. There are reasons other than the weather, that they go into brumation. Food is very plentiful during the spring & summer, but falls off during the fall & winter so brumation is a natural thing to do because of food sources being low primarily. I have a feeling though, if they are finding alot of food in one region, that they tend to stick to areas where they are finding more food, & move around to find more food. Survival of the fittest is how it happens in the wild. They may live in dry areas, sure, but from every documentation that I have read states that they spend a good amount of time finding water & digging burrows where it is cooler & possibly damp to cool off during the summertime so they can preserve water in the heat of the day.
The problem lies with keeping them captivity. Dragons in the wild are different than ones kept in captivity. In the wild, the gradients are different, & they are not cooped up in a dry tank, with heat almost all day long. Being in a tank tends to dry them out much more than being out in the wild, so, there really is no comparison.
We are talking about dragons in captivity, not in the wild. So, if they are leaner in the wild because they are not getting enough food, then, why would we not want to provide more for them in captivity. The only time that too much protein contributes to obesity, renal failure or other health problems is when too much is fed when they are adults & they don't need it.
I do not live in Australia, but I do know several people who live over in your country in Bundaberg. They frequently see wild barbatas. So, speaking of dragons in general, I have a feeling most of you are referring to how our dragons in the US look which are 100% Pogona Vitticeps with alot of them being German Giant cross.
The Vitticeps are much rounder shaped in appearance than the wild dragons that you may be used to seeing such as the Pogona Barbata, so, again, you cannot say that our dragons here in the US are fat. That really is an unfair statement, as we do not have any Barbatas, only Vitticeps. Of course, the vitticeps in the wild may not quite look like your captive bred ones, or ours either, just due to the fact they always have to compete for food, or find it, but that doesn't mean that we need to starve them either.
The whole point of keeping them in captivity is to provide them a full & long life, unlike what most of them would get in the wild because of predators.
So if you want to make fun of us americans for holding & loving our dragons, or putting them in fleece blankies every night at bed, then go ahead. However, for those of you who may be mill breeders & have never come close to experiencing the closeness of holding a dragon for the sheer love of doing so, are greatly missing out.
That is the difference in large breeders who only breed for money & hobbyists who either breed selectively, or just not at all.
I really resent being made fun of because our husbandry is different or we choose to spend tons of money on our lighting. Our lighting ROCKS over here, & I am proud of it. I do tons of research on lighting, & am working closely with Dr. Frances Baines, from the UK, constantly to help gather data regarding lighting, etc, to help her with testing to ensure that the lighting is optimal & safe.
The only thing that Kirby might be guilty of is being very persistent & passionate about how he feels about bearded dragons. I don't see what is so wrong about that, as most people never really find their true passion in life, but I believe that he has, just like I have.
Tracie
I think the main problem we have is with the attitude.
Most of us have the attitude that, "This is the way I do things and if you wanna do things your way, that's fine"
Whereas others have this attitude that, "This is the way I do things, and my way is the best way, and I want you to do things my way too".
Most of us have the attitude that, "This is the way I do things and if you wanna do things your way, that's fine"
Whereas others have this attitude that, "This is the way I do things, and my way is the best way, and I want you to do things my way too".
No kirby is trying to jam his ideas down the throats of people who have a lot more experience that his mere 12 months of beardie keeping. Quite clearly he is well read, but lacks the experience to see what is the minimum required, what is practical and what is just plain and simply over the top.
kirby, listen, comment, but dont lecture and you'll find that people will then start to listen and respect your opinion too.
yes i do have this 'attitude' but its for the right reasons, because i care for your dragons..
and codered, you dont know me at all. ive kept dragons for almost 6 years now, and had the p.vitticeps 'puppy' that i mentioned for almost 16 months now. you cannot draw someones experience from one dragon, from one example posted in a thread.
i dont plan to wittness or put my dragons through the minimum required again. because i now can and will provide my dragons with a much better, healthier and fulfilling lifestyle than 10 crickets a day. as for your acusation of lack of experience in the minimum, my rankins (first dragon) was fed the 'suggested' as you all admit to being ever faithfull, and this dragon has stunted growth and a tricky diet due to similar advice as your own, and lack of thorough knowledge and unaceptance to uvb knowledge or acessability. i dont wish to risk this with my dragons again, nor do i want to see it with any one elses. you'll be pleased to know that the rankins is now fine and very healthy eating suitable foods and living (hopefully continue to) live a long happy life.
when raising my original three centrals, i did have times were food was scarce awaiting deliveries and money etc. and i did see them slow growth when i rationed their foods, not to say it was as little as 10 a day, more likely 20-30 but they did slow in growth. i'd rather my dragons grow quickely and strongely, and live long healthy lives then let theem knuckle-drag in growth so they get similar dietary experiences as they would in the wild. i'd rather provide the best for their health and wellbeing.
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