Native vs Exotics

[Chimera]

I personally think the most practical solution would be to legalise keeping exotics under a retricted and expensive permit only avialable to experienced keepers(to reduce escaping problems). Highly invasive species would be completely banned unless requied for special reasons.

End result: The exact same situation we are currently in with the addition of a few rich, experienced herpers keeping exotics legally.

No disrespect but you have contradicted yourself in that argument, if you want to legislate the already existing illegal trade of exotic reptiles in order to prevent escapes you will need to make the appropriate licensing available to those who currently posses these illegal animals.

I do agree with your point on harm minimisation but I don't feel that much can be done to locate and remove animals from people who simply should not have them.

 

[cris]

One of the main arguments for legalising this has been "eveyones doing it anyway, make it legal so it can be regulated". That's great, does the same apply to shop lifting, drink driving, graffiti....

Well you can legally drink and drive up until a blood alcohol level of .05%, and graffiti can be done legally. With both of these things a rational approach has been taken to allow ppl freedoms while not increasing the negative effects caused by illegal activites, sometimes even reducing them.

 

[Chimera]

Well you can legally drink and drive up until a blood alcohol level of .05%, and graffiti can be done legally. With both of these things a rational approach has been taken to allow ppl freedoms while not increasing the negative effects caused by illegal activites, sometimes even reducing them.

Touche`

Maybe the approach would be similar to the amnesty, ability to keep single animals restricting breeding to the elite few. These restrictive licensing practices were part of what drove herpetoculture underground in NSW pre 97

 

[Zanejb]

are you for saving our wildlife and looking after it? because if if you are then DONT get exotics. its that simple. if you dont give a rats..... about our natives then you shouldnt have reptiles anyway.

 

[cris]

End result: The exact same situation we are currently in with the addition of a few rich, experienced herpers keeping exotics legally.

No disrespect but you have contradicted yourself in that argument, if you want to legislate the already existing illegal trade of exotic reptiles in order to prevent escapes you will need to make the appropriate licensing available to those who currently posses these illegal animals.

I do agree with your point on harm minimisation but I don't feel that much can be done to locate and remove animals from people who simply should not have them.

They simply would need an amnesty, perhaps they would need to have a limited time where criminals with records and other current keepers could also get the permits in the initial stages.
Some ppl would still opt to keep them illegal but alot of ppl would prefer to have them legally IMO.

I also think there needs to be serious consequences for anyone breaking the laws regardless of if keeping exotics becomes legal or not. From what i have heard the current system give little to no punishment for keeping illegal exotics in most cases.

 

[Zanejb]

actually the punishment for exotics is very high, but the problem is the whole concept of "raids" on people have all but become a thing of the past and doesnt really happen. this is the reason the trade is underground. we with licenses have to keep good bookwork or we get into trouble. but there is no check system not anymore.

 

[bunnykin]

Well you can legally drink and drive up until a blood alcohol level of .05%, and graffiti can be done legally. With both of these things a rational approach has been taken to allow ppl freedoms while not increasing the negative effects caused by illegal activites, sometimes even reducing them.

YOU ARE HAVIN A LARF ARN"T YOU MATE??? not on the same planet as this topic mate. Can we just take a look in history. I don't know of one exotic animal that has been "introduced" without causing harm to oz let alone these days not hated for its introduction. And if your about to say that bringing them here to own isnt introducing them your in dream land. Yes people let them go so they are not caught with them (showing the stupidity of the people that do have them ) but I can tell you the 2 major resons that are out there is 1. they are allowed to escape ( people should atleast have the bollox to look after them more secure knowing the risks) and 2. the people that realise how much more work they are ( being they are taken away from there native homes and temps) or plainly get sick of lookin after tham oh and 3. the people who change their lives/move/get married/have kids etc.

Oh and by the way what happens when they get ill?

 

[Chimera]

Actually the maximum penalty for exotics is high, the average enforced penalty is quite low.

I don't think we need to re-introduce the raids of the past to get a result. One person hit with the ten to twenty thousand dollar maximum penalty in a very public manner would make people think twice about keeping exotics. But as my previous points state, the animals would be dumped into the environment making the situation worse.

 

[cris]

Bunnykin are you arguing for or against legalising exotics?
To start with you say bringing them here is bad, but then list off a heap of reasons why its bad for them to be illegal :?

I think its ironic that in my case my exotic reptiles are actually far less of a threat to the environment than the native species i keep.

My AHG's are kept in a freezer where they cant hurt anything, but if a tree fell on my house allowing some of my Australian herps to escape they could either establish a feral population or pollute the local gene pool, they also have the same chance of carrying disease as exotic species that have been bred in Australia.

Exotic herps are actually legal in a number of cases such as cane toads, AHG's in QLD and axolotls and green tree pythons in all states except WA.

 

[Chimera]

Exotic herps are actually legal in a number of cases such as cane toads, AHG's in QLD and axolotls and green tree pythons in all states except WA.

GTPs are native to Australia (well sort of, let's not go down the path of how many GTPs in Aus are Australian.

You strike a clear point with AHGs in Qld. When is a species considered to be "introduced" rather then exotic and thus legal. AHGs have been in Aus for quite some time (anyone feel free to quantify this).

Cane toads are considered a malicious pest and I believe it is illegal to keep them in all parts of Aus.

Axolotls came under the "fish aquarium" heading which is the only reason they were allowed IMO.

 

[bunnykin]

Cris just the mere fact that you read my post to agree with yourself shows that you are not open to the bigger picture. As I have said Exotics should not be here and if the people that have already got them are so inept at keeping them aswell as stupid enough to let them go whatever their personal reasons shows what a huge threat actually allowing them to be kept would be. I don't know how you cant understand that.

 

[bunnykin]

I see it like this ...
If these people know its against the law (which it should be) and take it upon themselves to have them, then winge that they "have to let them go" in fear of being caught they show their selfishness and ignorance to the reasons they are illegal in the first place!

 

[Retic]

Bunnykin, the most amusing part of your argument is that your avatar is a big black cat. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say the avatar is ironic, because you actually hate cats. Of course if the cat is yours then I assume you keep it indoors or in an escape proof run ? The other option is that it is your cat and it lives outside and devours our native wildlife. I assume it is option one after all you can't possibly argue against the responsible keeping of exotic reptiles if you own a cat can you ?

 

[ihaveherps]

lol Boa... cats are best kept inhessian bags with bricks for company, at the bottom of the dam

 

[Chimera]

HAHAHA

How can you argue with that logic Boa

 

[bunnykin]

my cat is and always will be an indoor cat he isnt an import with risks he has been desexed and i agree that cats are a problem so whats your point? If cats introduction where still an issue i would be just as much against them as i am herps and everything else. The only reson I have mine is because they were rescues but if they were a threat to anything they would have to go.

 

[Rennie]

we are in a new age where people are smarter, think more and respect things because its whats known as socially exceptable.

Have you seen the movie Idiocracy yet? Its a new age but we're not getting any smarter :lol:

 

[dragons75]

Lets sell hybrid exotics in pet shops

 

[Retic]

I will use the same argument I have used before, when I was coming back here after some time in the UK I wanted to bring with me a UK captive bred Green Iguana that we had for 3 years. I was obviously told it wasn't possible due to the unacceptable risk to the flora and fauna of this country, I agree being herbivorous it may well have eaten a few flowers had it escaped. If I had on the other hand wanted to bring a pet cat with me that wouldn't have been a problem, I assume the risk to the flora and fauna of this country is negligible with a cat ?
I have NEVER advocated allowing the importation of reptiles, they are here in huge numbers already, my position has always been that experienced keepers could be allowed to keep commonly zoo/park bred exotic reptiles.
What people have to stop saying is that we shouldn't allow the importation of reptiles, it really isn't necessary and it shouldn't be part of the argument. The animals are legally kept here in zoos, parks and by private individuals so importation of possibly diseased animals isn't necessary.

 

[krissy78]

exotics should be kind of like vens.
here in sa we cant have extremely deadly vens until we have had
not so deadly vens and work our way up.
maybe keepers who want to keep exotics would have to have a couple of years
keeping our native herps first before exotics?????

This to would have been my opinion I would say yes it would be great to keep exotics provided we have shown that we can care for our own native wildlife first and maybe have to show our records over a 5 year period. This way anyone that was serious about keeping exotics could show they were responsible enough to do so. IMO anyway