Real Estate Ethics (a sentence that's hard to swallow...)

[slim6y]

So I recently (as with so many of you) had a run in with a real estate agent, over a measly $360 that they've taken illegally.

To make a long story short - we were thinking of moving house if I didn't get the job in NZ - but I got the job, so we had to retract... Prior to that though, the agent of a house we were interested in suggested we put a deposit down and then if we wanted the house it would be the first weeks rent. I admit, I wasn't so sure what would happen if we didn't take the house - that wasn't clear.

We had NOT signed a lease!

So of course, I got the job in NZ so I asked for our $360 back.

Well, to put it bluntly I was told where to go - and because I kicked up such a fuss, knowing the law and all (which is on my side in this instance), they've complained and now I may be 'black listed' too...

So I was looking at the Jenman Site - and I wanted to quote this:

"REAL ESTATE REFORMS must be based on ethics. The major principle of ethics comes from the Latin 'Primum non nocere' - 'First do no harm'. In fairness to agents it is impossible to act ethically with methods based on trickery and deception. Unfortunately, new laws are only part of the solution. Legal and ethical are different.

Legal is the lowest standard and ethical is the highest standard. Forcing agents to be ethical doesn't work. They must realise the importance of ethics. Ethics leads to the most vital ingredient in any relationship - trust. Of all the strategies to attract consumers, nothing is as powerful or as profitable as ethics. And nothing is harder, especially in the short-term. It takes courage to follow high ethical standards, to place the interests of consumers first. In the long-term, however, the rewards to consumers and agents are magnificent.

Ethics is a system of moral principles by which human actions are judged right or wrong, good or bad. The Roman statesman, Cicero, urged business people to revise their thinking and understand that true success does not come from trickery and deception but from moral goodness, both in thought and in action. Agents must stop thinking about who is right in the battle for real estate reform and start thinking about what is right. Ethics is the right way."

Source: Ethics | REAL ESTATE REFORMS must be based on ethics

Is this the perfect world???

Wow - that to me is exactly what it is about... Ethics... But if I showed that real estate agent that, she wouldn't get all teary eyed, she'd tell me where to go again!!!

I'm not sure I'm after anything more than for you guys to be able to print that statement off and give it to an agent when they annoy you I'm going to print a copy and give it to mine!

 

[sarcastocrat]

Real Estate agents are scum - when you are renting at least. They treat you like a bottom feeder and an inconvenience. I can't wait until I can afford a deposit to buy my own place. Then I will have to deal with the scummy bank instead!

 

[Wallypod]

yeah thats why my partner and i only deal with the land lord....less people...less bs

 

[slim6y]

Real Estate agents are scum - when you are renting at least. They treat you like a bottom feeder and an inconvenience. I can't wait until I can afford a deposit to buy my own place. Then I will have to deal with the scummy bank instead!

Be careful there though... Real Estate agents are scum no matter what it is you want. Yes, they'll bend over backwards in front of you... But this VERY same crowd was dealing with a teacher I also work with (this is where I can't believe this agency hasn't been blacklisted themselves) and they tried to rip him off for the sale of his house by a further $6,000 - even though they had already agreed on a sum (I think around $12,000, but they asked for $18,000).

So my friend said flat out right - NO, they weren't paying that and they had documentation to prove so. My friend also had to go to the office of fair trading and the police... The police you ask???

The owner of this said real estate office called up while my mate wasn't home, and talked to my mates wife... Well, talked is the loose version of what really happened, he abused my mates wife and called her all sorts of names... He called her a low life and the sort of person he'd cross the road to avoid...

So when my mate gets home, he phones this owner and says "So you're the big man that abuses my wife while I'm not home, now's your chance to say it to my face..."

The owner then threatened to 'deal' to my mate - so my mate called the police and filed a complaint.

In the end, they did not pay the extra $6,000 and the office had to give up...

My plan is to get my $360 back or cost them more than I am worth...

Already around 500 (local) people know the name of the agent and the company - even if just 2 of them don't use them I've done all I need to do...

A Form 16 was filled out and sent to RTA yesterday... now it's a wait and see

 

[vampstorso]

I know the feeling...a "student" real estate place here tried to rip me off $600....by claiming I hadn't paid all the bond even though I had receipts! then claiming the price has changed...which you know, would be illegal since we had a contract! total scum.

I'm lucky now that my agent for my house now is amazing.

Hope you get your money back! they're relentless people!

 

[dale1988]

i have been without a light in my bedroom for over 2 months now everytime you turn on the switch the houses power switches of im assuming something with the wiring is faulty but anyway the real estat has been informed owner came to check out the house but do you think its been fixed? i am sure that if i decided hey i dont feel like paying rent this week the real estate would be more than happy to do there job...

 

[slim6y]

i have been without a light in my bedroom for over 2 months now everytime you turn on the switch the houses power switches of im assuming something with the wiring is faulty but anyway the real estat has been informed owner came to check out the house but do you think its been fixed? i am sure that if i decided hey i dont feel like paying rent this week the real estate would be more than happy to do there job...

Unfortunately your method of getting attention is illegal - and there method of doing nothing - equally so.

Have you filled out an incident slip or maintenance request form?

Make sure you do all those things first - then pester them, every couple of hours if you have to - explaining how urgent it is. Then when nothing is done you've got every leg to stand on, and they have none.

The next best thing to do of course is call the RTA and suggest it's a fire hazard - then they should act quickly and urgently without a form!

This can allow you in some cases to pay 'less rent' or get someone in to fix it and charge the agent.

 

[Perko]

Ive always treated a deposit as your securing what your after, locking other people out.
I would not refund your money either. If you put a deposit on a snake, then your mum says you cannot have it, that has just restricted my sales so you loose your deposit.

Sounds fair to me

 

[KaotikJezta]

Ive always treated a deposit as your securing what your after, locking other people out.
I would not refund your money either. If you put a deposit on a snake, then your mum says you cannot have it, that has just restricted my sales so you loose your deposit.

Sounds fair to me

Except that real estate agents are not legally allowed to take deposits on rental properties anyway, they are not allowed to take any money until the whole appplication has been submitted and approved. Some do take deposits but state that in the event of the property not being approved the deposit will be returned. Commercial property is te only property you can charge an application fee for which is non-refundable whether you are approved or not.

 

[slim6y]

Ive always treated a deposit as your securing what your after, locking other people out.
I would not refund your money either. If you put a deposit on a snake, then your mum says you cannot have it, that has just restricted my sales so you loose your deposit.

Sounds fair to me

What they said:

Read also very clearly section 159 and 160 of the Residential and Rooming Tenancies Act of 2008.

Page 110 and 109 http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/R/ResidTenRAA08.pdf

The receipt must show:
(f) that the payment is a holding deposit;
(g) when the option to enter into an agreement may be exercised.

Both of these were failed on in my case.

A holding deposit paid to or for a prospective lessor of residential premises is forfeited to the prospective lessor if—
(a) the prospective tenant does not, within the option period—
(i) exercise the option to enter into an agreement for the premises; or
(ii) notify the prospective lessor of the intention not to exercise the option; or
(b) having exercised the option, the prospective tenant fails to take all necessary and reasonable steps to enter into the agreement.

It is noted, a option period was not disclosed therefore we can not forfeit the money involved.

If the holding deposit is not forfeited but the agreement is not entered into, the prospective lessor must refund the deposit to the prospective tenant within 3 days after the prospective tenant notifies the prospective lessor of the intention not to exercise the option.
(3) If the holding deposit is not refunded, it may be recovered by the prospective tenant as a debt owing by the prospective lessor to the tenant.
(4) If the prospective tenant exercises the option, the prospective lessor or prospective lessor’s agent must take all necessary and reasonable steps to ensure the prospective lessor enters into the agreement.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

I'm not sure what the penalty is - but they're in for it.

I agree with you Craig, if you enter into an agreement as a holding deposit - then you MAKE CLEAR it is a non-refundable holding deposit... Instead, they called it the first weeks rent and a 'FULL DEPOSIT' which is NOT allowed. They have failed in this section completely and they're going to have to pay.

This woman also threatened me - it is purely unprofessional and to be honest, taking their side is the legal high ground which they're still wrong on... Look at the ethical side... I'd understand if they say they need to re-advertise the address and charge us $60 but refund the $300....

But you know what... You know what they said? They said we'd signed a lease... which we DID NOT! A holding deposit is NOT one weeks rent!!!

A holding deposit is $100 or something similar agreed to... I know they were aware of our situation and had I not been offered the job we would have taken the house... but as I was offered the job, we couldn't take the house, what is fair is fair... they've broken the law... Now I take the ethical and the moral high ground - and there's no reason for them to hold 100% of that FULL deposit...

----- * * * Foot Note * * * -----

(3) If the holding deposit is not refunded, it may be recovered by the prospective tenant as a debt owing by the prospective lessor to the tenant.

Can someone please tell me what that means?

How can I recover the 'debt' - can I smash knee caps? call the cops? what can I do??? Please don't tell me I have to go to court as well????

 

[KaotikJezta]

take them to the department of fair trading or equivalent in your state.

 

[Freeloader]

I had grown up with the guy who owns a real estate office in our town, so you think he would do the right thing by me in regards to our rental property. Not the case. He put tennants in the house that he knew were non payers. It took us 12 months to get these people evicted and they wrecked a 2 year old house. It set us back an absolute load of money even though we had landlord insurance. The so called real estate agent wanted to charge us to represent us at VCAT. All the while they were charging us commission on the rent that we were not receiving.
If i saw this guy walking accross the road i would go across 4 lanes of traffic to get him, no problems at all.

 

[slim6y]

Freeloader - that is an incredible and awful story... WOW!! The ethics are unbelievable - honestly, who can be that uncaring for someone they knew and grew up with?

Anyway, I have been inspired to write a note to the agency... it goes as follows:

The receipt must state the following—
(a) the name of the person receiving the deposit;
(b) the tenant’s name and, if the person receiving the deposit is not the lessor, the lessor’s name;
(c) the address of the premises for which the deposit is paid;
(d) the date the deposit is received;
(e) the amount of the deposit;
(f) that the payment is a holding deposit;
(g) when the option to enter into an agreement may be exercised.

The receipt does not follow (f) or (g) of this section. This is clearly seen on the receipt.

(b) if a period is not stated—the period ending 48 hours after the receipt is given.

We informed you within 48 hours, that we would NOT take the property.

(1) A holding deposit paid to or for a prospective lessor of residential premises is forfeited to the prospective lessor if—
(a) the prospective tenant does not, within the option period—
(i) exercise the option to enter into an agreement for the premises; or
(ii) notify the prospective lessor of the intention not to exercise the option; or
(b) having exercised the option, the prospective tenant fails to take all necessary and reasonable steps to enter into the agreement.

This means that we’d lose our deposit if we didn’t exercise our option to enter the agreement within the option period, or didn’t notify the lessor or if we did exercise the option, which we couldn’t, then we’d need to take steps to see we follow through with it. Therefore we are within our rights to ask for a refund.

This is then followed by the refund:

(2) If the holding deposit is not forfeited but the agreement is not entered into, the prospective lessor must refund the deposit to the prospective tenant within 3 days after the prospective tenant notifies the prospective lessor of the intention not to exercise the option.
(3) If the holding deposit is not refunded, it may be recovered by the prospective tenant as a debt owing by the prospective lessor to the tenant.
(4) If the prospective tenant exercises the option, the prospective lessor or prospective lessor’s agent must take all necessary and reasonable steps to ensure the prospective lessor enters into the agreement.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

This clearly states that the holding deposit must be refunded within three days of our request. I am able to recover it as a debt, which is why I am here, the money is to be refunded in full immediately.

And finally:

(5) If the agreement is entered into—
(a) the holding deposit must be applied in full or part payment of the rental bond for the agreement; and
(b) if an amount remains from the deposit after payment of the rental bond—the amount must be applied in payment of rent.

If we had entered a lease as you say, then you’re legally entitled to pay that money as a bond… Seeing as we never actually have a bond agreement, you’ll need to fill one out now. But unfortunately, someone is already living in that place and you can’t have two bonds on the same house, so therefore our bond must have been refunded. But if it hadn’t ever been paid, then it is up to your company to refund it immediately.

I have been fair, legal, and ethical in my ways of approaching your company. I therefore request, a full and final settlement to the value of $360 paid, in CASH as suggested on the receipt.

This request was made well over three days ago, and therefore the request is immediate and without hesitation.

I look forward to receiving the $360 from Said AGENCY immediately.

Yours sincerely

 

[ravan]

wow.
I work in a real estate, and under no circumstances do we take any money until they've signed a contract and it gets receipted up and put in the system...

 

[Jackrabbit]

This is the short story? :?

So I recently (as with so many of you) had a run in with a real estate agent, over a measly $360 that they've taken illegally.

To make a long story short - we were thinking of moving house if I didn't get the job in NZ - but I got the job, so we had to retract... Prior to that though, the agent of a house we were interested in suggested we put a deposit down and then if we wanted the house it would be the first weeks rent. I admit, I wasn't so sure what would happen if we didn't take the house - that wasn't clear.

We had NOT signed a lease!

So of course, I got the job in NZ so I asked for our $360 back.

Well, to put it bluntly I was told where to go - and because I kicked up such a fuss, knowing the law and all (which is on my side in this instance), they've complained and now I may be 'black listed' too...

So I was looking at the Jenman Site - and I wanted to quote this:

"REAL ESTATE REFORMS must be based on ethics. The major principle of ethics comes from the Latin 'Primum non nocere' - 'First do no harm'. In fairness to agents it is impossible to act ethically with methods based on trickery and deception. Unfortunately, new laws are only part of the solution. Legal and ethical are different.

Legal is the lowest standard and ethical is the highest standard. Forcing agents to be ethical doesn't work. They must realise the importance of ethics. Ethics leads to the most vital ingredient in any relationship - trust. Of all the strategies to attract consumers, nothing is as powerful or as profitable as ethics. And nothing is harder, especially in the short-term. It takes courage to follow high ethical standards, to place the interests of consumers first. In the long-term, however, the rewards to consumers and agents are magnificent.

Ethics is a system of moral principles by which human actions are judged right or wrong, good or bad. The Roman statesman, Cicero, urged business people to revise their thinking and understand that true success does not come from trickery and deception but from moral goodness, both in thought and in action. Agents must stop thinking about who is right in the battle for real estate reform and start thinking about what is right. Ethics is the right way."

Source: Ethics | REAL ESTATE REFORMS must be based on ethics

Is this the perfect world???

Wow - that to me is exactly what it is about... Ethics... But if I showed that real estate agent that, she wouldn't get all teary eyed, she'd tell me where to go again!!!

I'm not sure I'm after anything more than for you guys to be able to print that statement off and give it to an agent when they annoy you I'm going to print a copy and give it to mine!

 

[Eylandt]

Real Estates AND Landlords can be scum sometimes.

We rented a house that leaked massively all over the joint to the extent that clothes and equipment were being destroyed.

Long story short 3 of 5 bedrooms, the laundry, lounge room and kitchen became unusable. Both the R/E and the landlord done nothing for months on end until the decent rain pour just before Christmas.

We required the assistance of the SES during this rain and as a result only a week before XMAS we were evicted on the spot as the house was deemed unlivable by SES. When we told the R/E that they had to put us up in alternative housing they quickly terminated their contract with the landlord so that they wouldnt be required to do anything.

Needless to say it was an awful Christmas but we took the matter to the CTTT and as a result we went to Court. Court got adjurned to 28th of April and now the landlords trying to do a runner (selling both his houses as quick sale). Courts be brought forward to the 1st of April and so were hoping to get compensation in excess of $13,000 from the Real Estate and/or Landlord!

OP, Unless theres something in writing that specifically states that the deposit is non-refundable you should be entitled to it back!

 

[benjamind2010]

I would have taken them to pieces literally, but that's just me. I admit I'm not a perfect human being, I have the misfortune of having inherited my great uncle's pitbull streak and my mother's impatience and nervous irritability, so I really pray to God that I never ever come across anyone like this or I fear they would never see the other side of the day.

 

[slim6y]

This is the short story? :?

HAHA! Well, it's not quite the Lord of the Rings trilogy I guess, making it 'Shorter than Lord of the Rings"

I would have taken them to pieces literally, but that's just me. I admit I'm not a perfect human being, I have the misfortune of having inherited my great uncle's pitbull streak and my mother's impatience and nervous irritability, so I really pray to God that I never ever come across anyone like this or I fear they would never see the other side of the day.

If you feel like coming up here for a beer - you can represent me as my 'Debt Collector' if you like