Snake bites

[mysnakesau]

l dont care about brownie points if new this would bring some many haters l wouldnt of started it yer what l did was wrong yer l am defeated can l mod plase delete this thread.

Nobody hates you. We've only tried to warn you of the danges of playing with dangerous animals. But your reaction to the comments shows that it is obviously not what you wanted to hear. So far, you've been lucky, but one day, you will know what these people are talking about.

 

[Elapidae1]

Elapidae i find your comments very irrisponsible.

The difference between 'our most respected herpetologists' and our up coming herpers is that in the 70's 80's and 90's the only way to get experience was to either have a friend herpetologist or go out and do it on your own. When i was 8 years old my friends and i went out and did it on our own, my two friends both got tagged and spent days in hospital. There is no need now to go out and do it on your own in most states of Australia. There are a tonne of different courses that anyone can pay to do in a safer environment. The methods taught are usually P) safe, ethical, tried and tested.

Just because we did it on our own doesn't mean that it is ok for newbies to do it too. You only have to look at the OP's latest comment to see that what you are encouraging is irrisponsible and dangerous. And just for the record i did end up doing two courses.

I don't believe my comments are irresponsible, quite the opposite actually. At 8yo, were you told not to catch snakes ? yet you did anyway.
After you I was the second person to offer anything constructive. Do you really think he's going to listen to me telling him he's stupid and don't do it? rather than pipe up and beat my chest by being dorogatory. I gave advice on safety and respect for the animals that he is no doubt going to continue catching.
I've also done courses and had the opportunity to observe experienced handlers doing their thing, yet the moment I decided to tail my first Brown I took a risk and became the idiot some of the above posters believe I must be, maybe I am? I did grab a potentialy deadly snake by the tail after all.

Well one of those guys was me and the others were the owner/operator and employees of the reptile park Jonas and I volunteered at, between them racking up maybe 50 to 60 years' reptile experience.

I didn't mean to sound like I was critisizing Jonas, you or the people you learned from, merely that everyone has a starting point. For Jonas, you and me for that matter it was having the opportunity to observe and learn from more experienced people, for others, they saw a snake, they picked it up.

Nobody hates you. We've only tried to warn you of the danges of playing with dangerous animals. But your reaction to the comments shows that it is obviously not what you wanted to hear. So far, you've been lucky, but one day, you will know what these people are talking about.

No nobody hates him, but there wasn't much in the way of warnings either. Calling someone an idiot or stupid serves no purpose when you could just as easily suggest, maybe you need to reconsider your handling techniques or if you should even be touching these animals.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

What could eb more rewarding?

Was that a typo Slim?
Snakes are usually happy to be released and will make for the nearest cover if you let them.
Sometimes they get confused and can be unpredictable in their movements.
And a lot of time, when they strike at you its just to let you know your not welcome and is just a bluff...
But not all the time.
In this video you can see a copperhead having a half hearted strike before taking off.
The tigersnakes progress was impeded by some fat bastit taking pics of it and in this situation,
i think, if the tiger got close enough to me ...i mean him,
he would have gone the munch.
Ideally, you just let them go and dont stand between them and their percieved safety.
[video=youtube;RvLNybVxONg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvLNybVxONg[/video]
Cheers

 

[mmafan555]

The Op has some balls...thats for sure

I suggest swallowing a live cane toad next time to impress the ladies and this forum even more.

 

[longqi]

There were seven recorded snake bite deaths in Bali last year
Two from Krait
Two from Cobra
One Tree Viper
Two unidentified
In every single case it was through someone either trying to kill or catch the snake
It can be a one way street
So better to avoid that possibility

Every TV documentary; except David Attenborough and a few older shows, needs WOW factor
That is why they catch and hold venomous snakes in such a way as to make for good TV
The same snake would never react like that unless it was molested

There is an old saying which too many have forgotten
"take nothing but photographs
leave nothing but footprints"

 

[Justdragons]

In the op there was no mention of skill level, experiance or who he was with. people just started to have a go. its easy sitting infront of your computer to be rude.. to be honest i sit on this forum a few hours a day watching these threds and this is one of the first threds ive come across that i thought "geez ease up guys" he is clearly asking if others have been tagged by or almost tagged by elapids to hear some stories and build some relationships on this site?

I just feel you catch a lot more ants with honey. if your trying to educate someone its goin to work better without insults.

I agree catching wild vens is dangerous and def not my cup of tea but help in the right direction is better than "no im not an idiot".. just my opinion

 

[mysnakesau]

Nobody is stupid but everybody is capable of doing stupid things.

 

[cement]

I have been bumped by red bellies, on the hand, and on the leg. Both times the snake was just heading in that direction and simply ran into me in a matter of sorts.

I have caught so many wild snakes and do it often enough that I have absolutely no desire to "go herping" and pick up wild snakes.

My take on it is this... I rescue and relocate snakes. If a snake needs rescuing and relocating i will catch it using whatever means are necessary, hook, tailing whatever... i have a false sense of security that I am doing the right thing for them and there fore somewhat protected, as soon as I start playing with snakes that are in no need of catching, and i am doing for my own selfish fun, then i can expect to get tagged.

Once you have been around them for a while you realize just how stressful handling is to them, and seeing them in their own natural habitat stress free, is a pleasure.

 

[Wally]

I spent my childhood catching all sorts of things I had no business playing with. Fortunately I'm still here to reminisce. The internet has replaced Monday lunchtime at school though for bragging rights. With age comes wisdom, and I'd certainly not encourage youngsters to run out willy nilly grabbing vens by the tail. Join a local herp society if your interest is that strong. I'm sure you could tag along ( pun intended ) with some older coots that can impart some well placed knowledge.

 

[mmafan555]

There were seven recorded snake bite deaths in Bali last year
Two from Krait
Two from Cobra
One Tree Viper
Two unidentified
In every single case it was through someone either trying to kill or catch the snake
It can be a one way street
So better to avoid that possibility

Every TV documentary; except David Attenborough and a few older shows, needs WOW factor
That is why they catch and hold venomous snakes in such a way as to make for good TV
The same snake would never react like that unless it was molested

There is an old saying which too many have forgotten
"take nothing but photographs
leave nothing but footprints"

And you know very well that is NOT the case in many Asian countries..Accidental bites are what causes the majority of the bites and deaths in many countries...People accidentally step on them and get bitten and in the case of the krait it comes into peoples homes in search of frogs/geckos/lizards etc and then bites them when they move in their sleep.

Of course you can't blame the snake from biting someone that steps on them...but for people to play it off as just "its all humans fault etc etc" is not a thing you want to do and its not accurate at all....Snakes are very dangerous animals...and they do no coexist well with human beings.

 

[longqi]

And you know very well that is NOT the case in many Asian countries..Accidental bites are what causes the majority of the bites and deaths in many countries...People accidentally step on them and get bitten and in the case of the krait it comes into peoples homes in search of frogs/geckos/lizards etc and then bites them when they move in their sleep.

Of course you can't blame the snake from biting someone that steps on them...but for people to play it off as just "its all humans fault etc etc" is not a thing you want to do and its not accurate at all....Snakes are very dangerous animals...and they do no coexist well with human beings.

Sorry Mmafan
I quoted exact official figures from Bali regency
You are thinking of the Malayan Kraits not the ones here
Similar species but act very differently and are virtually never seen inside houses

As for Co-existing with humans.. I can take you to 10 villages in 5 countries where people and cobras and/or huge molorus and various colobrids etc quite happily co-exist

Once again you missed the whole point I was trying to make
Leave snakes alone and they will usually leave you alone
Try to copy what you see on TV and eventually you will get bitten

 

[waruikazi]

I don't believe my comments are irresponsible, quite the opposite actually. At 8yo, were you told not to catch snakes ? yet you did anyway.
After you I was the second person to offer anything constructive. Do you really think he's going to listen to me telling him he's stupid and don't do it? rather than pipe up and beat my chest by being dorogatory. I gave advice on safety and respect for the animals that he is no doubt going to continue catching.
I've also done courses and had the opportunity to observe experienced handlers doing their thing, yet the moment I decided to tail my first Brown I took a risk and became the idiot some of the above posters believe I must be, maybe I am? I did grab a potentialy deadly snake by the tail after all.

I completely disagree, your post was very irresponsible. I'm not entirely opposed to handling wild snakes, including vens, i do it on the odd occasion if i want a photograph or for whatever reason. I usually don't though.

Your post was not only offering advice, it was also encouraging that behaviour. Of course i was still catching snakes as an 8yo, even though someone told me not too. But the kid standing next to me thinking about catching a wild snake, but hasn't yet, would probably decide that it is ok if they heard someone encouraging them. Think about the bigger picture, the OP isn't the only kid who reads up on this site and is dreaming of being a first class herper.

If you caught your first brown for fun then yes i think that is pretty foolish, i don't think you're an idiot for it but i think it is a dumb thing to do. I tailed my first brown on a callout that was in a cinema. When i was a kid i was a wild slap and pin (all bare handed) herper.

And you know very well that is NOT the case in many Asian countries..Accidental bites are what causes the majority of the bites and deaths in many countries...People accidentally step on them and get bitten and in the case of the krait it comes into peoples homes in search of frogs/geckos/lizards etc and then bites them when they move in their sleep.

Of course you can't blame the snake from biting someone that steps on them...but for people to play it off as just "its all humans fault etc etc" is not a thing you want to do and its not accurate at all....Snakes are very dangerous animals...and they do no coexist well with human beings.

And you know very well that Lonqqi is not talking about those other Asian countries, he is talking about his Asian country Bali. We are not talking about accidents in this thread, we are talking about deliberate interference with wild animals.

 

[slim6y]

Was that a typo Slim?
Snakes are usually happy to be released and will make for the nearest cover if you let them.
Sometimes they get confused and can be unpredictable in their movements.
And a lot of time, when they strike at you its just to let you know your not welcome and is just a bluff...
But not all the time.
In this video you can see a copperhead having a half hearted strike before taking off.
The tigersnakes progress was impeded by some fat bastit taking pics of it and in this situation,
i think, if the tiger got close enough to me ...i mean him,
he would have gone the munch.
Ideally, you just let them go and dont stand between them and their percieved safety.
[video=youtube;RvLNybVxONg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvLNybVxONg[/video]
Cheers

Sure - I do do typos from time to time, just to let you all know I am human after all

I understand what you're saying about the releasing (being rewarding) - but all this young fellow (the op) needs to take his time before taking the correct channels to catch and releasing snakes... If he does it right, rewards will be far greater than being snapped by tailing a taipan in a cane field.....

 

[Elapidae1]

I feel your contradicting yourself Gordo, If I caught my first Brown for fun it was foolish, yet sometimes you do for photo's or whatever.

I concede my post could have been taken as encouraging catching wild vens but was actually intended to encourage making informed decisions and having a healthy respect for them.
Simply posting a picture of a venomous snake could be taken as encouragement

 

[waruikazi]

I'm not contradicting myself at all. There is a big difference between a trained and licenced snake catcher catching a snake for the purpose of a photo or whatever compared to someone who is not trained, not licenced and who is catching them for no other purpose than the thrill of it.

Very big difference.

I feel your contradicting yourself Gordo, If I caught my first Brown for fun it was foolish, yet sometimes you do for photo's or whatever.

I concede my post could have been taken as encouraging catching wild vens but was actually intended to encourage making informed decisions and having a healthy respect for them.
Simply posting a picture of a venomous snake could be taken as encouragement

I'm talking about handling wild snakes for reasons other than relocations.

 

[Elapidae1]

So as long as you haven't been bitten your trained, once you get bitten your foolish for playing with snakes unnessarily.

Trained or not "photo's or whatever" reads as catching for fun.
Catching for relocation reads, license to catch for fun.

By the way the first Brown I tailed was a callout under license after doing a 1 day course, so I guess I wasn't all that foolish seeing as I was "trained"

 

[waruikazi]

Your purpose for tailing that snake was a relocation, you were trained and you were licensed. I said 'If you caught your first brown for fun then yes i think that is pretty foolish, i don't think you're an idiot for it but i think it is a dumb thing to do.'

In the context of this conversation, to me and i assume most other posters, fun means for no reason at all except kicks and giggles.

Like i said, i am not against handling wild snakes for reasons other than relocations. I do it some times. I am against people who do not know how to do it safely and those who encourage other people who don't know what they are doing.


When did 'trained' ever mean that you have never been bitten?

Just so we are clear, i think anyone playing with dangerous snakes unnecesarily- their actions lie somewhere on the scale of silly to down right retarded. Including when i do it.

So as long as you haven't been bitten your trained, once you get bitten your foolish for playing with snakes unnessarily.

Trained or not "photo's or whatever" reads as catching for fun.
Catching for relocation reads, license to catch for fun.

By the way the first Brown I tailed was a callout under license after doing a 1 day course, so I guess I wasn't all that foolish seeing as I was "trained"

 

[Elapidae1]

Yeah sorry I'm tired and was getting argumentative.
Firstly people will do what they do.
Secondly my advice to the OP is if you want to interact with venomous snakes you should think hard about the best way to approach it and whilst tailing snakes in the bush is exciting, there are ways which would be safer and give you opportunity to learn and recieve instruction and advice from people that have been in and witnessed a variety of situations involving potentialy deadly snakes.
Doing a course in relocation is a start and it gives you a legitimate and legal way to begin interacting with them but don't be fooled into thinking that a course is going to ready you for every situation.
If "My first Brown" hadn't just come out of brumation and been somewhat cold it could have been a serious mistake.
I've been handling vens for about two years now and still consider myself inexperienced despite having devoted hundreds of hours watching experienced people in the field and dealing with captive snakes.

Bottom line is the moment anyone no matter how experienced decides to handle venomous snakes they're putting their physicall well being and lives at risk, so what better way to minimise risk than to avail yourself to as much knowledge and experience as possible before making the decision for yourself