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You're right that pork and chicken industry seems to be lagging behind the beef industry but I think supporting the ones who are doing the right thing (ie free range) sends just as clear a message as boycotting the entire industry completely
 
im sorry but this is ridiculous...

we are not only talking about cattle. They are treated more humanely then the other produce animals. Chickens and pigs are kept in horrific conditions - defend that. I have seen first hand how they are kept, im not talking about how they are killed.

oh and we have all made the point that our animals are fed meat. Mine are fed free range chicken and beef and my snake is fed mice that i have seen the living and killing conditions of.

really dont understand how you can say farmers care about their animals when they are kept like this

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and why on earth would any farmer bother to keep their chickens/pigs nicely when you disregard it?
some people do something wrong and that means everyone does?
No one is ever going to give the good guys credit, and because of that the bad ones will win. Plain and simple. Because people will forget and ignore that better farmers exist.

you know what? shock tactics don't work. Show me every bloody picture or piece of writing you want, I've seen it all. I think it's pathetic to use shock tactics to try and convert someone.

so, I'd argue that you're being ridiculous.


The industry is never, NEVER, going to end. and so, the best that can be done is supporting those who run the industry right. Not sit there and accuse them of torture they don't practice and hence causing smaller businesses to fall under and the businesses you're actually talking about to prevail.
 
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and why on earth would any farmer bother to keep their chickens/pigs nicely when you disregard it?
some people do something wrong and that means everyone does?
No one is ever going to give the good guys credit, and because of that the bad ones will win. Plain and simple. Because people will forget and ignore that better farmers exist.

you know what? shock tactics don't work. Show me every bloody picture or piece of writing you want, I've seen it all. I think it's pathetic to use shock tactics to try and convert someone.

so, I'd argue that you're being ridiculous.


The industry is never, NEVER, going to end. and so, the best that can be done is supporting those who run the industry right. Not sit there and accuse them of torture they don't practice and hence causing smaller businesses to fall under and the businesses you're actually talking about to prevail.

im not trying to convert you. Im saying that not all farmers care about their animals, especially chickens and pigs. I do support free range produce - i feed it to my animals.

The vast majority of products people eat come from these inhumane farms so i think its a very valid point to make for those who dont eat all free range product.
 
you can't "convert" me anyway. I've been vegetarian 10 years.

But forcing people into pictures or horrifying stores would just put them off the topic completely. e.g. if someone shoved a bible in your face...you're going to think they're crazy and not listen. Same with this topic.


That's a different point completely, and I can agree with you on that, about offering the better alternative of free range.
But to seemingly ignore that there are good people out there is what was bothering me.
I'm from the country, as in, actual paddocks for miles sort of country, and I know there are plenty of caring farmers out there, just consumers and governments make their lives hard by ignoring that.
 
You're right that pork and chicken industry seems to be lagging behind the beef industry but I think supporting the ones who are doing the right thing (ie free range) sends just as clear a message as boycotting the entire industry completely

technically the term "free range can be used/iterpreted very losely, also varies between countries (+ also depends if the company involved actually cares, note not all are like this but yea, food for thought)
some countries, like the European Union have good guidelines
others, not so much

free range.jpg


and yes, that is "technically" free range, just because they are not in a "cage"
 
When i was a 3, with 4 older siblings, lived on a sheep farm.
We foster cared a orphaned lamb that we bottle fed every day.
The family pet became a sheep which we adored.
One evening we sat down for dinner which Mum had prepared,
"what are we eating, this yum" my brother said,
Dad replied "we are eating Dolly" the pet sheep.
True story. As you can imagine the trauma that followed, as we couldn't leave the table untill we had finished.

Vegetarian, just make sure you are getting a good source of Protein.
Because Protein is the most important nutrition.
Also be aware that, in a nutshell, we need to consume Alkalizing foods. very important, Google it.
Go back to being Hunters and gatherers, would solve some issues. :)
 
That happened to my sister. She used to care for the pigs at our school; one day, without telling the students, they were sent away to slaughter. She came home, traumatised, and by the worst possible coincidence, my mother served pork that night. Mum told my sister she wasn't leaving the table until she'd eaten it, and finally conceded defeat at midnight. We're stubborn in my family.:)

Protein's awesome and heaps easier to get these days for vegos. So are alkalising foods (done my research there, too - in fact, meat is very acidic, so fruits and vegies - some of them - really help there).

Guys who are complaining about vegos 'soapboxing' - I don't think it's intentional - this thread pretty much did ask, and we were simply responding to people who were saying it's pointless. We think there's enough of a point to have changed our lives for it, so a response was necessary. I don't preach unless it's within context ie. someone asks why I'm vego, or brings up vegetarianism to knock it. I also hate shock tactics. I support free range (genuinely free-range), small holding, and heritage meats - I work in the industry and I think they're important. I try to encourage meat-eaters to at least try them, because I'm told they're a hundred times tastier and a better product ethically. Many farmers *do* care for their animals, but for the layperson who doesn't live in to country and personally know their producer, it's impossible to tell, and when you see stuff like the live export issues, you really have to wonder how much those farmers care. Australia is way behind the rest of the world in terms of how we treat pigs and chickens, too.

A great big tip of the hat from me to all the omnivores who've responded and source ethical meat, and the meat-lovers who've been civil. So many aren't (and make stupid remarks about lacking testicles, etc). You guys rock.:)
 
Some people are too quick to make sweeping generalisations about things they know only a little about. And they then want to defend such statements when they are challenged. Might I suggest that any given individual’s contributions would be viewed with much greater respect if they stayed within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding. And should one wish to have more impact than this allows, do the research, expand your limits.

Blue
 
When i was a 3, with 4 older siblings, lived on a sheep farm.
We foster cared a orphaned lamb that we bottle fed every day.
The family pet became a sheep which we adored.
One evening we sat down for dinner which Mum had prepared,
"what are we eating, this yum" my brother said,
Dad replied "we are eating Dolly" the pet sheep.
True story. As you can imagine the trauma that followed, as we couldn't leave the table untill we had finished.

happened to me with a chicken
thought it was gonna be one of the family in my ever expanding menagerie of previous pets

well, that was until we had fried chicken for dinner
as i was munching on a drumstick, i asked where's our chook cause he was pretty active/flighty
my dad proceeded to say i was in fact eating it.....

2nd time it happened with a pair of ducks i had, one was allegedlly carried away by strong winds and the other was killed because the neighbour's hens had contracted fowl pox (the chicken's version of, uh... chicken pox...) and it was a shame if the duck got it too & went to waste... go figure :|
in this case tho we had someone who was duck-sitting for us, so i did not witness the whole thing per se, but yea, was a bawling wreck nevertheless

all this before puberty too.....
 
I am astounded at how insensitive parents can be at times. I guess they just don’t understand the trauma that can cause. It would seem they find it funny but you have got to wonder about the real cost of their self-amusement when it sticks in someone else’s memory for a lifetime. Those reading who are or will be parents of young children – please take note!

Blue
 
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I am astounded at how insensitive parents can be at times. I guess they just don’t understand the trauma that can cause. It would seem they find it funny but you have got to wonder about the real cost of their self-amusement when it sticks in someone else’s memory for a lifetime. Those reading who are or will be parents of young children – please take note!

Blue

depends really, personally i don't find it insensitive nor do i think they perceive great joy from seeing lil ol me cry. The animals (well the chicken really) was intended for food in the first place.

Puts alot into perspective how we get meat on the table, i've seen chickens having their heads cut clean with a cleaver, goats put up for sacrifice and other stuff, which personally would be preferable than being ignorant on how the food industry works.

If i was to be shielded and protected from every single thing that happens in this world i'd be a sad sap by now from being unable to cope.

*note i still eat meat regardless, pretty much infered from the statement above, just to be clear
 
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K3nny I think a lot of people are ignorant as to how the food they eat gets to there table, and firmly believe that a better education in these matters would be beneficial to all.
 
depends really, personally i don't find it insensitive nor do i think they perceive great joy from seeing lil ol me cry. The animals (well the chicken really) was intended for food in the first place.

Puts alot into perspective how we get meat on the table, i've seen chickens having their heads cut clean with a cleaver, goats put up for sacrifice and other stuff, which personally would be preferable than being ignorant on how the food industry works.

If i was to be shielded and protected from every single thing that happens in this world i'd be a sad sap by now from being unable to cope.

its seeing chickens beheaded that made me vegetarian in the first place...

this kind of thing happened to my grandma. she was only about 10 at the time and she helped raise little chickens and when she came home from school one day their bodies were strung up under the house, headless. Now 60 yrs later she hasnt touched chicken since. It can really have lasting effects...
 
I'm a meat eater.

To be honest though, I've found a lot of vegetarians and vegans in particular to be so intellectually lazy and brainwashed..
 
I'm a meat eater.

To be honest though, I've found a lot of vegetarians and vegans in particular to be so intellectually lazy and brainwashed..

If only I could like this 100 times!!!


I actually disagree with people here...again...
I think children SHOULD know what it is they're eating. not in a shock tactic way, but what's wrong with them understanding what they eat? Kids have become too sheltered. I'm not saying throw a whole carcass in front of the child, but perhaps let them know that yes, a chop is a sheep.

I know an 8 year old who thinks "chicken" and "chooks" are different animals...and you eat chickens, but you can't eat the chooks! I think that's where the damage is, but if they knew from the start it wouldn't be different or upsetting to them.
 
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I will admit, I basically live off meat and dairy. There is nothing wrong with buying and eating proper meat, but you could not pay me to eat that processed fast food crap. Buying meat from a butcher, that came from cows that were well looked after and killed humanely, doesnt bother me, but knowing what those poor animals that are served in McDonalds, KFC etc. have been through, thinking about it actually makes me sick.
 
I will admit, I basically live off meat and dairy. There is nothing wrong with buying and eating proper meat, but you could not pay me to eat that processed fast food crap. Buying meat from a butcher, that came from cows that were well looked after and killed humanely, doesnt bother me, but knowing what those poor animals that are served in McDonalds, KFC etc. have been through, thinking about it actually makes me sick.

all the beef at maccas is aussie beef, which gets slaughtered exactly the same way as meat at your local butcher or woolworths, I'm not saying maccas is healthy but think first.
 
all the beef at maccas is aussie beef, which gets slaughtered exactly the same way as meat at your local butcher or woolworths, I'm not saying maccas is healthy but think first.

But you most definitely can't say the same thing about chickens...
 
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