vegetarians and vegans

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The health problems that vegetarians suffer when they do comes from not eating properly, not the fact that the don't eat meat. When you are vegetarian you need to ensure that you balance proteins and other essential things. Eating something rich in say iron, is no good unless you ensure it can be metabolised properly which often means eating it with something else to facilitate iron absorption. The biggest mistake vegetarians/vegans make is either eating only vegetables with no legumes etc or eating legumes/grains of only one sort. You need to eat say beans and rice in one serving to balance proteins. There are books written on it and I am sure you could use google to find out more, but in my 15 years of vegetarianism the only time I ever got unhealthy is when I got lazy with my food. It si a bit of an effort to eat properly but it can be done.
 
A lot of what your body needs and what diet can be healthy actually depends on your blood type. O tends to need meat the most through to AB which needs it the least. O being the oldest type and AB being the newest.
 
A lot of what your body needs and what diet can be healthy actually depends on your blood type. O tends to need meat the most through to AB which needs it the least. O being the oldest type and AB being the newest.

I'm blood type O :p haven't had meat in years and years, and favored fine as a vegan too.

(I do know you're just generally speaking :p )
 
Yeah Im not looking to argue, my ex was a vegie, already had my lesson lol. Its actually serious but thats not saying its bad, just means if your an O you would have to have a better diet as a vegie that if you were say an AB vegie, if that makes sense. So people who are vegies and dont make the effort to include what they need in their diet are more likely to suffer if they are O. I should be anti vegie after being a chef for years hahaha but Im not, as I said before its the people who just say they are allergic for the sake of it that bug me. I couldnt go without meat but Im getting really picky on where I get it and how its produced.
 
A\ read a book such as the china study

This book has been rejected by the scientific community as a whole. It makes claims with no studies to back it, and the studies they do use they pick selective parts of (the best example I can think of is his reference to rectal cancer, referring to one study that looked into the instances of a particular cancer amongst every religious denomination. It tried inferring that animal fat was responsible, but Mormons, who are forbidden to drink and smoke, showed just as little instance of the supposed to link to rectal cancer as a vegan/vegetarians.) It fails to objectively present all information and data collected correctly, makes no mention of "previous" studies which he compares his own findings to, and ignores all current research and valid scientific findings.

The problem is that red meat - or meat of any kind is the problem - it's that we live in a society of want and greed. We refuse moderation in favour of eating what tastes good, regardless of dietary value. And the "rise" of degenerative disease is also attributed to our growing ability to diagnose those diseases, as well as disgusting habits such as drinking and smoking excessively.
 
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I dont have a problem with either but they should let places know when they book for dinner/function etc, on the night is a real pain. To the people who say they are allergic to things when they are ordering and actually just dont like it, Id like to feed your your own foot.
I was going to say this a few days ago, but in my experience it usually falls on deaf ears.
Last Friday. 8 o'clock, service is in full swing. Beautiful organised chaos. A risotto comes back to the kitchen. I ask what is wrong and I am informed by the waiter that that the customer is vegan and that the risotto has been garnished with cheese so therefore she cannot eat it. Nevermind that risotto by DEFINITION is "highly absorbent Italian short grained rice (commonly Arborio, though Vialone Nano and Carnaroli are far superior), lightly cooked in butter, deglazed with wine, allowed to absorb stock to finish cooking(animal, vegetable or mineral), then bound with cheese."

Also, the next time so vegetarian/vegan tells me about the environmental destruction caused by my carnivorous activities while smoking and/or drinking someone is going to have to hold me back.
Yes, I know entire ecosystems are destroyed so that I may enjoy meat, but if you have such a hard-on for stopping, and not just limiting, environmental destruction should it not also apply to tobacco, barley, wheat, sugar cane, agave, grapes, etc.?
 
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Refusal to self educate with unbiased material is a bitch I'm afraid. Like politics, we cling to the idea that this is what we believe in, therefore it must be right.
 
As a beef farmer's son i can only say that the only reasons i can see someone becoming a vegan is that:
1. They eat only vegetables not because they love animals, but because they hate vegetables or;
2. They have no testicles

what the


and i'm kind of glad i have no testicles...
 
As a beef farmer's son i can only say that the only reasons i can see someone becoming a vegan is that:
1. They eat only vegetables not because they love animals, but because they hate vegetables or;
2. They have no testicles

I somewhat like this comment,

I think an important thing to be noted (and I'm sure you can hopefully agree...) as pointed out as a result of current media events, farmers deeply care for their animals too. They're not monsters wanting to slay animals for fun. With the recent debate of protecting animals being sent overseas, an overwhelming amount of beef farmers (amongst other livestock farmers) called ABC talkback radio to express that they too care for their animals wellbeing; something I don't think the public believes for whatever retarded reason.

I think people should go watch "Jimmys Farm". Clearly every farm isn't like this, but it's a humbling example of mans relationship with our meat.

Good people and their practices shouldn't be ignored or punished for what others do.

It's one thing to not like what meat is (like myself), it's another thing entirely to not like where it comes from (supplier/farmer etc). Ultimately, one of those things can change, the other cannot.


I personally can't justify the consumption of meat for myself, I watched a rabbit get skinned alive when I was 4 (I clearly wasn't MEANT too see that), and ever since I can't stomach it on MY plate. But I can more than see peoples reasons for eating it too.

Not for "health", but for culture, for memories, for enjoyment and because that's what higher predators do; we eat things.
People over complicate things when we forget that we are, in essence, an animal the same as everything else.

I don't believe it's a practice that should be eradicated (meat eating/farming); it's not even a practice that is plausable to eradicate.
All we can do is scale it back down to the way it once was; a respectful practice.

Really don't get why vego's/meat eaters can't just get past it...shutup, and move on. It's certainly not something that always has to be on the table; just stop talking about it and everyone is happy.
You can't force someone to listen to you dribble on about religion...why can we/do we/should we force people to listen to dietary views.

I likely seem as though I'm fighting against vegetarianism...in reality, I'm just so sick to death of Vego's and their FRICKEN SOAPBOXES.



As for the Vegetarians and having carnivore pets thing;
Not all Vegetarians do so because they love animals...I actually have a friend who won't eat meat because she hates animals. She doesn't want too hurt them, she just doesn't want them anywhere near her including on her plate.
Some don't like the taste, some can't afford it, some have religious reasons etc.
But even people who care for animals can still keep meat eating pets.

The thing about this is, humans can survive without meat. Plain and simple, they can; Doesn't mean they choose too or want too, but they can. This is also a decision they make for THEMSELVES (well..except for the annoying soapboxers mentioned earlier)

To deprive an animal of meat, e.g. snakes, is cruel. It denies it the nutrition it REQUIRES to survive, and it is selfish as you're deciding you don't like it and there for it can't occur.
Other animals CAN'T survive without meat, so in order to care for them you must supply this.
Although I must admit to finding it odd that people who insist on forcing their vego views on other humans keep meat eating animals...if you can't respect a humans individuality and needs, I don't know how or why you can/do respect another animals.

There was an episode of Animal Cops once where a vegan woman tried to make her cat vegan by feeding it rice and flour...clearly we shouldn't all adopt that idea. Because it is cruel (amongst other things).
 
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I have a friend who just converted to veganism. I swear he turned nuts virtually overnight as soon as he changed

So true.
I worked with alot of vegans, and they are mental health workers--two really dangerous combinations.
Why cant people just be normal and keep snakes.
 
if we all stopped eating so much processed white flour - and its products --white bread ,pasta etc and white rice most of the worlds "new"health problems would dissapear in a year . it s not the red meat thats killing uss but all the crap we put with it!!!!
 
I love that this conversation has become somewhat more civilised and intelligent. Crystal and Casey if I could like your posts I would but I'm on tapatalk. You guys make some fantastic points.
Talking about my crazy friend, I had a renewed vigour to argue against one of the million videos he posts on Facebook about veganism and animal cruelty. I basically ended up being likened to a religious faithful who had been brought up as a carnist and I am just unable to see how "ignorant and blind" I am because of my "faith". I guess you can see the irony in this. I could anyway
 
I love that this conversation has become somewhat more civilised and intelligent. Crystal and Casey if I could like your posts I would but I'm on tapatalk. You guys make some fantastic points.
Talking about my crazy friend, I had a renewed vigour to argue against one of the million videos he posts on Facebook about veganism and animal cruelty. I basically ended up being likened to a religious faithful who had been brought up as a carnist and I am just unable to see how "ignorant and blind" I am because of my "faith". I guess you can see the irony in this. I could anyway

why thank you Saximus ;) to be honest, knowing you're posting in here is the only thing that got me to come back and read this thread I was preying would die a LONG time ago.... Soapboxing really just does my head in -______-

But anyway...back to being civilized :p

The thing with those videos, is like any campaign video; be it against smoking, over drinking, speeding etc...Everyone knows all about it, everyone knows for example that smoking will give you cancer and the only people the campaign will stop smoking are those who already didn't plan too...it won't change those who already do. I feel meat is the same.
Sounds like you're friend is one of my beloved soapboxers ;P

I tried to find a good video of Jimmys Farm on YouTube but there weren't any. It is however an amazing show, I used to watch it every week. It's a BBC production and certainly worth anyone doubting the farmers ethics looking into.

I truly believe it's a touchy topic like any other, and it should never be discussed unless someone first hand asks you about it.

hahaha why does everyone think vegans are crazy?
I was vegan for a few years, makes me wonder if I lost my mind :p (certainly lost my fair share of dates who got scared hahaha)
 
Haha thank you. I was supposed to step out and leave poor Ash's thread but just can't help myself.
Yeah you're obviously a crack pot :p.
I haven't seen this Jimmy's farm but I watched another BBC show called Kill it, Cook it, Eat it which I thought was just fantastic.
I guess I just don't like people who say the industry is cruel and stuff when they haven't seen a clean slaughterhouse being run. Of course people will break the law and treat some of them cruelly but to me that's kind of like saying people speed so nobody should be allowed to drive. The rule breakers should be punished for breaking the rules but it shouldn't stop the people who treat them with respect.
Anyway I'll step down from the soapbox now :p
 
Unintentional things happen in abattoirs which may be viewed as cruel, with large amounts of stock penned in tight quarters it's inevitable.
 
ultimately farmers don't want their animals going to those places, they don't spend time and money raising animals so someone can disrespect them.
if anyone has ever read "Eating Animals" (title refers to how we eat animals for memories etc) by Jonathan Safran-Foer, he mentions how farmers want to send their animals to family slaughterhouses where they know animals will be treated well, but thanks to the consumers wanting things as cheap as we can get them, these places get shut down, and they no longer have the privilege of running things how they want. The town I live in for example has....had, an abattoir, that had to shut down.
So ultimately, I guess vegetarians would do a better job if we ate ethically sourced meat rather than not eating it at all. As ultimately I guess we too are destroying what could be a humane industry, and meat eating will NEVER stop.

lol...wouldn't the meat eater I'm seeing be proud O____O

ahh I haven't seen that one... I'll add it too my list :p
Now we've both given each other homework! :p
 
I somewhat like this comment,

I think an important thing to be noted (and I'm sure you can hopefully agree...) as pointed out as a result of current media events, farmers deeply care for their animals too. They're not monsters wanting to slay animals for fun. With the recent debate of protecting animals being sent overseas, an overwhelming amount of beef farmers (amongst other livestock farmers) called ABC talkback radio to express that they too care for their animals wellbeing; something I don't think the public believes for whatever retarded reason.

I think people should go watch "Jimmys Farm". Clearly every farm isn't like this, but it's a humbling example of mans relationship with our meat.

Good people and their practices shouldn't be ignored or punished for what others do.

It's one thing to not like what meat is (like myself), it's another thing entirely to not like where it comes from (supplier/farmer etc). Ultimately, one of those things can change, the other cannot.


I personally can't justify the consumption of meat for myself, I watched a rabbit get skinned alive when I was 4 (I clearly wasn't MEANT too see that), and ever since I can't stomach it on MY plate. But I can more than see peoples reasons for eating it too.

Not for "health", but for culture, for memories, for enjoyment and because that's what higher predators do; we eat things.
People over complicate things when we forget that we are, in essence, an animal the same as everything else.

I don't believe it's a practice that should be eradicated (meat eating/farming); it's not even a practice that is plausable to eradicate.
All we can do is scale it back down to the way it once was; a respectful practice.

Really don't get why vego's/meat eaters can't just get past it...shutup, and move on. It's certainly not something that always has to be on the table; just stop talking about it and everyone is happy.
You can't force someone to listen to you dribble on about religion...why can we/do we/should we force people to listen to dietary views.

I likely seem as though I'm fighting against vegetarianism...in reality, I'm just so sick to death of Vego's and their FRICKEN SOAPBOXES.



As for the Vegetarians and having carnivore pets thing;
Not all Vegetarians do so because they love animals...I actually have a friend who won't eat meat because she hates animals. She doesn't want too hurt them, she just doesn't want them anywhere near her including on her plate.
Some don't like the taste, some can't afford it, some have religious reasons etc.
But even people who care for animals can still keep meat eating pets.

The thing about this is, humans can survive without meat. Plain and simple, they can; Doesn't mean they choose too or want too, but they can. This is also a decision they make for THEMSELVES (well..except for the annoying soapboxers mentioned earlier)

To deprive an animal of meat, e.g. snakes, is cruel. It denies it the nutrition it REQUIRES to survive, and it is selfish as you're deciding you don't like it and there for it can't occur.
Other animals CAN'T survive without meat, so in order to care for them you must supply this.
Although I must admit to finding it odd that people who insist on forcing their vego views on other humans keep meat eating animals...if you can't respect a humans individuality and needs, I don't know how or why you can/do respect another animals.

There was an episode of Animal Cops once where a vegan woman tried to make her cat vegan by feeding it rice and flour...clearly we shouldn't all adopt that idea. Because it is cruel (amongst other things).

im sorry but this is ridiculous...

we are not only talking about cattle. They are treated more humanely then the other produce animals. Chickens and pigs are kept in horrific conditions - defend that. I have seen first hand how they are kept, im not talking about how they are killed.

oh and we have all made the point that our animals are fed meat. Mine are fed free range chicken and beef and my snake is fed mice that i have seen the living and killing conditions of.

really dont understand how you can say farmers care about their animals when they are kept like this

med_19672_battery-cages4.jpg
 
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