WARNING For People Lending Snakes As Breeding Loans

[Colin]

thanks for your comments and insight elizabeth.. its always good to hear the opinions of a professional in these situations. I agree, sometimes stressful situations do make people act in a way they would not normally act and afterwards there a lot of regret. this woman however seems to have a definite vindictive streak and from her behaviour in this situation has a narcissistic personality as well.. the fact she wants to play and manipulate the system to cause more distress to everyone around her involved in this situation and put the animals welfare at risk in this vindictive revengeful manner rather than look to resolve a very sad situation as quickly and with the least stress on everyone around her says a lot about her in my opinion.

people like this always seem to use children as a weapon against their former spouse and use them to create ongoing problems and distress to the people they want to hurt.. and the way she seems to be acting now points to this being the next step in her vindictive revengeful personality behaviour.. Im no professional but thats how I see it. and I'd be worried for the kids as well as the reptiles..

 

[ausruss]

Your position really sucks. But what to do.

Without a document signed by both parties for the loan, the proof of ownership will have to be proven in a court of law. and yes your only alternative is to report the matter then take action. You also need all your communications to have clear written evidence of your report to police and the NSW Qld parks & wildlife also, as I assume you are in different states. Register letters to all three and keep copies. Get date awhen letters recieved and date and time of follow up calls with each persons name. You need to prove the facts OK

With this in hand go to community law office and get their help to fill in a civil action for the return of your annimals. If you win, you can get a repossesion order that is enforcable. Also I would approach parks and wildlife, if they fail to act in any way, fill in a complaint stating facts and ask for confernce for resolution with your minister. Go to the top and seek redress to stop this happening again to anyone else. Government depts are accountable and failing in their duty of care is also accountable..........Good Luck. Lastly go to the local papers and express your concerns, the more you can get media help the more it will help. name and shame them but only after you have been granted court order in your favour. Until then the theft is alledged.

 

[elapid@]

***

Just a warning for aps members to be extremely careful when lending animals to friends/family for breeding projects or loans etc...

As I've just been caught out with lending 4 of my snakes as a breeding loan to someone I thought I could trust. But now it seems this
person has decided my animals are too good to return and is keeping them.

Yep... done the police thing and they can't do anything as they refused them entry onto their home, so the police said to call nsw parks &
wildlife, called them including qld parks and neither of them can do anything even with proof of ownership (movement advices etc), and
they just keep passing the buck by stating this should be a matter for the nsw police... what the?

So at the moment I'm asking myself... if I borrowed someone's reptiles for a breeding loan, took them back to my house, kept putting off
the correct paperwork that needed to be filled/signed and returned to parks and wildlife, decided to keep the reptiles and even if the
original owner of the reptiles could prove that they were only lent as a breeding loan to me, has the paperwork to prove they are his
animals and do not belong to me, there is nothing the police or wildlife services can do?

After a month now, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm never going to see my animals again. I've exhausted every avenue
and it's like there is a technical hitch in the law that does not allow me to get back what is rightfully mine.

So please be careful people, I'd hate to see or hear of this happening to anyone else.

This has now got me asking about the paperwork we religously fill out (the only means we have to prove a certain reptile belongs to us)
everytime we sell or move a reptile to another address or buyer, this is meant to prove you and/or the seller are the rightful owners/sellers,
so in a situation like this... it's worth what???

If i still lived there i would brake the door down and take them back. that's not on who are they and where do they live...... stand up for your self don't let these people put it over you.

 

[Fantazmic]

Hi jungleman

If parks and wildlife have viewed the animals and determined there are breaches to their care how can she just get rid of them and say she has no knowledge of them without consequence ? How could she say they all died without proof ? I cannot believe she could do this and nothing would be done!

 

[Heelssss]

I'd be going in with a baseball bat, No Doubt!!

 

[Squirtle]

Sorry to hear man, what a *beep * head! Its a shame what some people do these days!

mmmm If you know where he lives just go kick the door in and get them back... worst that could happen is breaking entry as your not really stealing anything as they belong to you but dont do it, I guess thats the only real thing you can do if the police/wildlife cant do anything.

 

[Heelssss]

what about mini-microchipping??? Like we do for our fluffy pets?

 

[Jackrabbit]

They won't return the calls/msgs etc and have now threatened an avo if I keep contacting them.

Should not have to go through a court or that expense for something like this, it should be just cut and clean.

Mate I'd be letting them try the AVO thing. they would have to explain why they wanted one and I doubt they would get one since you are really stalking or threatening them. Plus I imagine it would cost them something to get it done.


I reckon I'd be asking a Stud fee of about $5k no matter what the snake. If they don't pay then they don't get the loan, if they don't return the snake they way over paid for snake unless it is a GTP.

If the snake mysteriously 'died' they get half back for pain and suffering.

 

[aussiejosh]

thats soo wrong mate hope you get them back theres gotta be some way

 

[Nighthawk]

This isn't normal grief. If she was acting out of pure spite and anger she wouldn't be thinking clearly enough to play the system as well as you say she is.
The fact that your son is too scared to go back in, the way she's working it and the disregard for the animals lives tells me she is manipulative, cold, calculating and abusive. She appears to be the kind of person who likes to give back more than she was given in terms of hurt, whether or not she was really wronged, not to mention gets gratification out of 'one-upmanship'.
Put it this way, I'm glad it's working out in your favour with regards to the animals, and I'd really be keeping an eye on the kids.

 

[FAY]

PLEASE NOTE: we DO NOT encourage ANYONE to break the law or take the law into their own hands. Please note Rule No: 15

PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN POSTING

15. No member may make a post, thread or visitor message that encourages others to break any law, or promotes illegal activity (for example, keeping without a licence, illegally taking animals from the wild, smuggling, wiring your own cages, feeding live rodents or freezing live rodents)

 

[Colin]

as far as the kicking down the door and taking them back suggestions go.. its something everyone would like to do but will leave wayne up for breaking and entering illegal entry, damages to property and whatever else.. that would see him end up on the wrong side of the law and I doubt would be taken lightly by the police. all that really can be done has been or is being done and its always best to do things legally and within the law..

This isn't normal grief. If she was acting out of pure spite and anger she wouldn't be thinking clearly enough to play the system as well as you say she is.
The fact that your son is too scared to go back in, the way she's working it and the disregard for the animals lives tells me she is manipulative, cold, calculating and abusive. She appears to be the kind of person who likes to give back more than she was given in terms of hurt, whether or not she was really wronged, not to mention gets gratification out of 'one-upmanship'.
Put it this way, I'm glad it's working out in your favour with regards to the animals, and I'd really be keeping an eye on the kids.

I agree with Nighthawks post above too..

 

[abnrmal91]

How did it go mate. Everything going to plan on the recovery

 

[Fantazmic]

yes we are thinking of you.....please let us know the outcome as soon as you can

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

No luck guys... 5pm come and went with no call or msg today to come and collect them, so she still has them held up in the house (that is if they are still there?).

Contacted NSW Parks and could only leave messages as they are not open over the weekend (even though we were told there is someone always there over the weekends?).

So off to the qld police again tomorrow with the legal document that states they were to be handed over before 5pm today, lets hope they can get something done this time.

 

[abnrmal91]

Considering that DECCW (or what ever it's called now) is meant to care about wildlife, they definitely don't seem to care about the animals welfare. This is what is so annoying is we jump through all the hoops to keep them happy but when push comes to shove. They don't give a **** about our animals.

Hopefully the cops can get it sorted.

 

[Fantazmic]

Jungleman I am so sorry

I guess you do have to wait for her to initiate handover...you couldnt have just turned up at her place at 5pm to collect them ? Was that made clear that she had to contact you......

My hope is if you go to the Police tomorrow they wil organise to accompany you to the house to sease the animals.

This is just so unpleasant....at least Parks went and viewed them all so she cant say they were never there.

You know I really hope she can be fined or charged with something....this is all so wrong !!

 

[Nighthawk]

It continues to amaze me that dodgy people can flout the law as much as they like and get away with it, but honest people may forget to pay a fine or put half a toenail out of line once and get completely snotted by the full extent.

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

We also found out yesterday that she even has the audacity to apply for a reptile licence so she can keep all the animals (this includes ours)... we are just dumb founded, surely she must know it will be rejected!

 

[Nighthawk]

Sociopathic tendancies much? Man she's got some cohones...