Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ok - by your reckoning then:

1) Do homing pigeons home because they know where there home is or because of advancements in their brain (magnetosomething word escapes me)?

2) Do fish manage to find their way back, especially salmon and trout, to their birth stream because they were given a map at birth?

A snake can familiarise itself with smell because it is one of the most attuned senses it has. Along with taste.

The same way a pigeon (homing) finds its way home is because it has that attuned sense. It is nothnig to do with conditioning at all!

I don't agree with Kelly however, you've proved you're not better than anyone else - you're merely an equal :p

Attuned senses and refining ability to memorise are very different things. I would say a snake has a brain the size of a pin head and its ability to store information and retrieve it woudl also be limited.
If I have used incorrect words it woudl be that I am a more attuned to physics than biology (or even chemistry although my memory failed me with that magneto word - so I wonder if a snake could have the issue to)


1. More along the lines that , pigeons don’t fly away because they have associated food with home. Birds have a far superior spatial memory system, which unusually is restricted to one hemisphere of their brain. Making it a very efficient system for its size. Either way, birds still need a point of reference in order to 'home', which dictates they have a superior 'map', regardless of how their measure it (magnetosomething).

2. The nature that fish have to swim upstream (more water rushing through gills) may not have anything to do with anything I've spoken about. The innate responses of a fish, and the observed behaviors of a snake are not comparable. Nor relevant.

3. Conditioning is relevant to both cases, even your pigeon, as a pigeon doesn't simply decide it loves you, and wants to bring you the letter. It goes home because it is conditioned to its flock, or its food, or something it associated at some point with safety or survival.

4. Ad hominem arguments are childish, and aren't worth attention.

5. Of course a snakes brain is limited, however, even a mouse can learn very sophisticated conditioned responses to fear, emotion, and cognition. My argument is that a snake can be conditioned\'trained', as that is the only way for an animal to survive in an environment of any kind. Animals are not set machines, they can be 'programmed' if you will.

If I need help with the splitting of entangled particles and the processes of quantum instant communication, i'll know where to find you.
Cheers


Sparty, honestly. Jumping on his case? It's called having a sense of humor, and with your lack of appreciation or understanding for this you try to make other people feel bad. What if I was a 12 year old? You just said the way these people have been 'talking garbage' is pathetic. How do you know these people aren't 12. There was no need to add the fact that you are getting another degree either. Good for you, and good luck with your life. But take that stick out mate. :)

He got laughed at... Thats not funny, it's derogatory and demeaning.
If I dont tell people my history, it wouldn't be taken seriously.
Thanks for the luck, you too.
Sorry for the stick, I dont like it when people are made fun of on here when they ask a question.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it's a tree, not a stick =\

You may thinks it's science fiction, but its actually been done, and its rather well known.
NewScientist, start of the year. Newspapers dont do knowledge justice, though to you, I'm sure knowledge is a bad thing.
 
Excuse me Sparty, I never said anything about your points being invalid or untrue. I read them and, after already thinking along the lines but not giving it too much thought, I agree with you.

Stating a point or saying something doesn't mean you have to be rude about it, just because you're smart it doesn't mean others, especially myself, are inferior to you.
 
1. More along the lines that , pigeons don’t fly away because they have associated food with home. Birds have a far superior spatial memory system, which unusually is restricted to one hemisphere of their brain. Making it a very efficient system for its size. Either way, birds still need a point of reference in order to 'home', which dictates they have a superior 'map', regardless of how their measure it (magnetosomething).

OK - So why does my wild frog always return to my kitchen window - every night, but only when the light is on? Well, he realises there's food there, and an easy catch. Make sense? I reckon.

How does this relate to a pigeon which has specialised adaptions in their brain? Or a snake for that matter with specialised olfaction senses - so specialised in fact that they may have the greatest 'taste' on earth (or something similar). Plus along with that pythons (mostly) have heat pits - they're attuned to their world that way - not conditioned for food by bribing them - you can't train a snake that way firstly - they eat sporadically, secondly you can't put a mouse on the end of its nose and tell it not to feed until you command it - it won't work (that was a little far fetched I know, but the point is being made)


2. The nature that fish have to swim upstream (more water rushing through gills) may not have anything to do with anything I've spoken about. The innate responses of a fish, and the observed behaviors of a snake are not comparable. Nor relevant.

The fish return to their EXACT location of birth - they do this with more specialised receptors that search the 'taste' of the water. I may be dumbing this down a little because I am not a vet, but I do know my salmon and trout coming from a country blessed with 100 million of them!

They return to this location even though they could have been well over 1000km away or more - I now wished I had researched this so i could be more accurate - but again, the point is made - not trained, conditioned from birth!

A would put a snake and a fish on similar levels of knowledge attainment and learning ability :p Although that could be quite offensive to my barra which have finally worked out they get fed in the morning int he same place and now I wake up to find them waiting for me! I didn't train them - they were led to the same area every day because that's where food comes - I can't train them to bite people who put their hands in their pool!


3. Conditioning is relevant to both cases, even your pigeon, as a pigeon doesn't simply decide it loves you, and wants to bring you the letter. It goes home because it is conditioned to its flock, or its food, or something it associated at some point with safety or survival.

Is it conditioning or natural instincts - I would suggest more of tha latter and less of the former.

4. Ad hominem arguments are childish, and aren't worth attention.

Disagree - they're fun and can make good friends or fun enemies - I know of one such perosn on this site who does it for fun (not you, so don't get your knickers in a twist)

5. Of course a snakes brain is limited, however, even a mouse can learn very sophisticated conditioned responses to fear, emotion, and cognition. My argument is that a snake can be conditioned\'trained', as that is the only way for an animal to survive in an environment of any kind. Animals are not set machines, they can be 'programmed' if you will.

Apples with oranges - pears with watermelons poppy seeds and vw beetles.

You can't train a snake! But you can surely help it feel safe and secure and not threatened and not require attack - but even some hardened psychotic snakes will never change!


If I need help with the splitting of entangled particles and the processes of quantum instant communication, i'll know where to find you.
Cheers

I know very little about entangled particles - but I would like to learn :)



Vets are cool :)

PS - i hope you're not angry - it's all fun!
 
I'm too old for this!!!!!!!!!!! Not really but hey this is a reptile forum.....What a joke.
 
Not sure about the recognition of owner part but I know they know quality food when they smell it. I only ever buy from one place and when he runs out I have to order somewhere else. When I order from somewhere else my snakes turn their nose up at it. At first I just thought it was co-incidence but I tested them out and three times they refused food from that "somewhere else" place.
 
why do funny forums always turn into a battlefield? snake born with no legs....genious
 
Because everybody's thoughts and opinions collide. Then we have the voicing of another person step in, and so on so forth. People take sides and it just escalates from there :)
 
thanx every one for the comments on the subject before it wasnt a battle field!!:) and sparty calm down and speak in our language its all a bit to much for our lower classed brains lol just takn a joke no effence sparty. sparty thanx for the scientific version of your beliefs it helped a bit:)
 
Not sure about the recognition of owner part but I know they know quality food when they smell it. I only ever buy from one place and when he runs out I have to order somewhere else. When I order from somewhere else my snakes turn their nose up at it. At first I just thought it was co-incidence but I tested them out and three times they refused food from that "somewhere else" place.

I've had several people tell me that about my rats..
it could be they develop a taste for rats that have the flavour of what they feed on?
or the smell? I don't really know honestly.

but not all seem to do it either.. my snakes will eat dammned near anything hehe
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top