Why are Green Tree Pythons so expensive?

[MrBredli]

One more point... if he casts shadows over the 'purity' of certain locailties/lines, surely it isn't too hard for someone to step up and prove him wrong? If it can't be proven that Greg is wrong, and that the animals in question are in fact pure, then surely he is right to be questioning the purity of those animals??

 

[Simple]

The book pays lip service to the topic of obesity then goes on to show pictures of obese animals as if they were representative of what a healthy chondro should look like.

Another major issue I have with this book is that it promotes Maxwells personal beliefs as if they were fact.

The issue of locality is a great example. Maxwell and others with his midset have done all they can to discourage the breeding of local GTPs, this is done entirely to prop up the price of their own mutt animals.

The fact is that what is now considered to be a single species is in reality several different animals, there have been numerous studies and genetic work done and all suppoirt thjis conclusion.

US keepers like Maxwell have been breeding mixed blood animals for years and in a flagrant move to discourage people from buying less expensive locality animals that are now imported they activley try to persuade people against breeding locality animals, and attempt to cast doubt on the origins of any animal that they did not produce.

The unforetunate truth is that too many people beleive everything they read , so when someone like Maxwell publishes a book filled with his own very biased opinions it is looked at as fact by many

Just visit any GTP forums, you cant even talk about locality animals without someone regurgitating some of Maxwells propaganda.

As a breeder of locality animals I think his book has done a dis-service to the hobby, iut has in large part destryed the market for locality GTPs, intentionally just to promote hybrids.

Nick

Have you bred GTPs Nick?

 

[pugsly]

Why are they so expensive?

Who wouldn't want to own one of these.... So magnificent to look at, the colour gets me..

 

[pugsly]

Few more.....

 

[NickM]

yes I have bred GTPs,

All of this has to do with the history of GTPs in the US.

For the firs 20 years they were available you could not get lcoality information on any of them, you were lucky to get any at all and breeders simply bred what they could get.

Also at this time the full range and extent of the variation within this species was not really known.

In the mid 90s the Indo Govt allowed the export of the "farmed " hatchlings. These farms in most cases offered locality specifin animals, both C.B. and in come cases WC that were sold as c.b.

US breeders like Maxwell who had been breeding mutts for years were faced with a deluge of cheap imported locality animals. They did not want to compete with the prices of the imports and could not produce the locality animals as their lines were all mixed.

Their solution was to aggressivley try to cast doubt on the locality of the imported animals. If you read the section in Maxwells book about locality animals you will see what I mean.

Generally when one writes a book you dont include rumors heard from third parties, yet this is what Maxwell does, and its done for entirely self-serving reasons.

People wanted locality animals in the begining, and these guys have managed to convince the masses that they dont really want them!

The end result is the even US c.b. locality animals are worth very little , while mutts command much higher prices.

95% of all the GTPS produced in this country are mutts these days, wich just disgusts me.

When they locality animals first started coming in there were a great number of people who were enthusiastic about having the chance to work with them, now Maxwell and CO have killed that enthusiasm.

Its so bad here now that even the Indo "farms" are cross breeding them becuase they can make more money selling mutt!

Australia will have to deal with the same problems as from what I have seen most of the GTPs in Australia are actually smuggled Indo blood animals. I have to laugh a little everytime I see red neonates in Australia! as reall Aussie GTPs dont even have red babies.

Just remember when reading the book that you are reading one mans very biased opinion and nothing more.

Nick

 

[MrBredli]

Sorry but that doesn't make sense (i know i only have a tiny bit of the story so i should probably just shut up, but i just can't help myself...).

So Greg has been breeding mutts for what, 20-30 years?? ... However long, just take a look at what he is producing now - absolutely stunning animals! Nobody in their right mind would expect anyone to walk away from 10, 20, 30+ years of selective breeding simply because locality pure specimens are now available, would you Nick? If you were breeding GTP's (mutts) of the same quality as Greg's, would you stop immediately and start breeding plain old green GTP's simply because locality pure specimens became available? And would you expect someone to pay US$2000 for a F1 locality pure GTP when for US$2000 you can get a screamer that has taken 20-30 years of captive breeding to produce? I think it is outrageous that people would expect Greg Maxwell's insanely beautiful GTP's be priced equal to, or less than, locality specific animals that quite frankly are ugly compared to his animals.

I know that if i was in your position, i certainly wouldn't be complaining if locality pure specimens were cheaper than mutts!! I'd buy as many as i could, put 20-30 years of hard work into producing some amazing lines equal to that of Greg Maxwell's, and then i would ask for amounts similar to, if not higher, than what Greg asks.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm all for locality specific animals, and when i jump into the GTP pond i will only be purchasing pure Aussie GTP's. But fair dinkum, a Biak imported direct from Indonesia cannot possibly command as high a price as a GTP that has 20-30 years selective breeding behind it. On top of that, there is almost an unlimited supply coming out of Indonesia, do you expect everyone of those to be of equal value, or higher, than that of one of Greg's beautiful GTP's, regardless of whether it is pure or not? Like i've said, when someone puts 20-30 years of selective breeding into some of these locality pure animals and starts producing some quality pythons, then you will find they will sell for much higher than the mutts, but it seems to me that nobody is keen to put in the hard yards as Greg has done. Everyone's just looking to make a quick buck and nobody wants to work for it....

 

[Ramsayi]

Now don't get me wrong, i'm all for locality specific animals, and when i jump into the GTP pond i will only be purchasing pure Aussie GTP's.

Pure Aussies eh? :shock:
Where are you going to find them, next to a pile of rocking horse doo doo?

The biggest issue i had with Maxwells book is the bit about not probing GTP's until at least a year old. People have been probing baby GTP's for decades without any problems. A bloke makes a book and states it shouldnt be done, and all of a sudden every breeder only sells unsexed young. I guess i cant blame them, i'd probably do the same if i bred them, easy way to sell a few extra, or all the same sex to one buyer.

How many GTP breeders do you know that actually probe hatchies?

 

[Vincent]

How many GTP breeders do you know that actually probe hatchies?

Two to be exact. For obvious reasons i wont mention who they are, but both have been around for a long time. And i believe that a fair few more do as well. Not all do, but if you believe no one does you'd have to be pretty naive, and i'm not saying this about you Ramsayi. Like i said, i dont blame them, i'd probably do the same in their situation. A good mate of mine actually does the probing for one of these breeders. This guy has been selling "un-sexed" baby greens ever since Maxwells book came out, and my mate has been probing his babys from the start,and to this day, not one buyer has had one mature with a kinked back. Not being able to probe baby GTP's is one of the biggest myths in the game today. It's only one blokes opinion, and everyones gone with it.

 

[Vincent]

On the subject of probing baby GTP's, dont people find it strange how these breeders manage the get the wanted sex of the animal right with every holdback they keep. Very strange or very lucky? Hmmmm.

 

[Bushfire]

Aussie GTP? lol I doubt you will find a prue one and then comes the question how would you know? The shadow of doubt has been casted over all GTPs in aust. Oh no just a thought one day GTPs could be split in a few subspecies or even species...so the the majority could one day be that word everyone seems to hate judging by the other threads a HYBRID! But Im sure everyone will claim they are prue for fear of both legal reasons and the potential loss of buyers only wanting prue.

 

[moreliainsanity]

It's like anything, it's not what you know it's who you know, my mate got offered some last year as breeder having trouble selling them for the price they are asking, he got them for a really good price, they will come down in price sooner than what people think.

Leigh

 

[ad]

It's like anything, it's not what you know it's who you know, my mate got offered some last year as breeder having trouble selling them for the price they are asking, he got them for a really good price, they will come down in price sooner than what people think.

Leigh

What price was the breeder asking? How much did your mate buy them for?
feeding or unfeeding?
Did he only get the good price because it was someone he knew?
how long is 'sooner' and what will they come down on price to?

 

[moreliainsanity]

What price was the breeder asking? How much did your mate buy them for?
feeding or unfeeding?
Did he only get the good price because it was someone he knew?
how long is 'sooner' and what will they come down on price to?

Hi Ad, breeder was asking 6K feeding, my mate got a few of them for 4K and they were already advance(4-5 months old) yep he knows the breeder, at 4k each (adavnced juveniles) last year i think price already down compare to what you see gets advertised this season which still sells.

Leigh

 

[MrBredli]

Pure Aussies eh? :shock:
Where are you going to find them, next to a pile of rocking horse doo doo?

Nope, from here: [email protected]

Genuine Australian Green Tree Pythons, DNA profiled, pure bloodline with known origin, pedigree provided. Care sheets provided with each Green Tree Python hatchling.
Contact this breeder direct NOW for enquiries: [email protected].

On the subject of probing baby GTP's, dont people find it strange how these breeders manage the get the wanted sex of the animal right with every holdback they keep. Very strange or very lucky? Hmmmm.

Not to make any accusations, but i did find it peculiar that a certain breeder recently had 3 holdback yearling females up for sale, but no males? :?

Aussie GTP? lol I doubt you will find a prue one and then comes the question how would you know? The shadow of doubt has been casted over all GTPs in aust. Oh no just a thought one day GTPs could be split in a few subspecies or even species...so the the majority could one day be that word everyone seems to hate judging by the other threads a HYBRID! But Im sure everyone will claim they are prue for fear of both legal reasons and the potential loss of buyers only wanting prue.

There are a few pure Aussie GTP's around, if you know where to look. Us Aussies are quite aware that the large majority of GTP's in captivity are not pure Aussies, but to say there are none around is quite frankly a stupid statement. That's like saying there are no locality specific GTP's in the US!

 

[cockney red]

Seriously overpriced & boring snakes. JMO.

 

[CGSwans]

Seriously overpriced & boring snakes. JMO.

They aren't terribly active, are they?

I've only ever seen one at the zoo, but I think it's been in the same part of the cage every time I've visited.

 

[wiz-fiz]

You know how america has them and asia has them?
Well maybe they breed better if they are warmer.
Has anyone ever experimented in that sense?

 

[Retic]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, what do you mean America has them ?

 

[Khagan]

You know how america has them and asia has them?
Well maybe they breed better if they are warmer.
Has anyone ever experimented in that sense?

I'm sure the people breeding GTPs know the ideal temps to keep them at :lol:. Keeping it warmer wouldn't make it 'breed better' in any sense.

 

[Armand]

maybe its cause of their colours.. still doesnt explain why they are 7.5+ grand!