Woma Feeding

[dragondragon]

My woma most times strikes then eats but a couple time she has been clumsy as thats when you need to be careful i almost got bitten several times in one feeding before she even got her first rat.

 

[Lawra]

Oh and just one other question, I am located in Melbourne and I was wondering if I should turn my heat down at night for my woma?

That's a great question! I've been wondering it myself as I've researched and asked some people and responses are so varied... I live in northern qld though so would that change things?

One info sheet actually said to not heat womas at night and don't feed them during the winter months. Is that something I should be doing? It sounded a bit extreme :/

 

[andynic07]

I do not heat any of my snakes at night after they turn 12 months old. I also cool all of my snakes (and therefore do not feed) every winter after they turn 12 months old. Other people choose to not cool their snakes unless breeding. I live in Brisbane Queensland to give you a gauge on temperature.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Because Steve and I have a great relationship?

I feed him with tongs. They're about 30cm long. No risk of being bitten.

He is also always with me, and only in his tank when I'm sleeping, at work, or for the couple of days after a feed.

Like I said, a lot of trial and error with feeding in tank and out of and I've found this works best.

I fed him yesterday but next week I'll be sure to get a video for you.

Despite you having a "great relationship" (whatever that means from the snake's point of view...), what does your snake actually do all day when it's with you and not in it's enclosure? If you keep it alert and moving all the time, there will be a time when it runs out of steam. Snakes are secretive and have very specialised energy budgets - they are not like a parrot that's a flock bird and needs company all the time. Despite your "relationship" with "Steve," I suspect he's in for a pretty miserable snake's life with you Lawra. You sound very needy...

Jamie

 

[Lawra]

Hi Jamie, have you read the site rules? That was neither constructive nor necessary and frankly quite rude.

 

[Paintbrushturkey]

Hi Jamie, have you read the site rules? That was neither constructive nor necessary and frankly quite rude.

Don't go there, you'll find yourself between a rock and a hard pace.... I think, I disagree with your assessment..

As to the op's question,
my woma has a habit of taste testing everything (he just sort of sidles up to whatever takes his fancy and starts chewing on it.... so bites are pretty esy to avoid if you are paying attention) within reach (yet is a rather shy feeder who has never struck, but always takes his food gently), he calms down after he realizes my fingers aren't food (fingerfood anyone?). But seeing as i'd have to deal with a very excited snake after the feed (because in his mind there may just be more comming) i like to feed him in his enclosure.

Hope that helps / makes sense

 

[BeZaKa]

I do not heat any of my snakes at night after they turn 12 months old. I also cool all of my snakes (and therefore do not feed) every winter after they turn 12 months old. Other people choose to not cool their snakes unless breeding. I live in Brisbane Queensland to give you a gauge on temperature.

Hey Andy, may I ask what is the lowest temps you will get inside your enclosures in winter?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Hi Jamie, have you read the site rules? That was neither constructive nor necessary and frankly quite rude.

Yes Lawra, I am aware of the site rules, and I acknowledge that I was blunt with you, but purposely so. I think I suggested the other day, in another thread, that you were taking an anthropomorphic view of the needs of captive reptiles, and you response to this thread has simply confirmed that. Despite you suggesting that you and your snake have a "great relationship" (to use your words), I am suggesting that this "relationship" is for your benefit, and not that of your snake. Snakes are not domestic or flock animals, they are solitary creatures with a need for privacy most of the time. That you are basically giving it no choice but to be with you, and agitated by you, whenever you can, is an indication to me that you have little or no comprehension that this is still an animal with needs that are just as important as, but very different to yours, and that you have no understanding of reptile biology.

Even feeding it while holding it, and suggesting that after experimentation this is what works best for you, tells me a lot about you. What DIDN'T work about feeding it in its enclosure? I think you're putting your own needs before those of your snake.

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Hey Andy, may I ask what is the lowest temps you will get inside your enclosures in winter?

I have a min/max thermometer and the get down to about 10 degrees in the coldest part of winter but also my hides are made from expanda foam and grout and my snakes curl up in them overnight which may insulate quite well.

 

[Becca-Marie]

I have always fed my snakes in their enclosures and never had a problem. My personal opinion is that moving them and feeding them outside of the enclosure or in your hand can be stressful to them but also i dont fancy moving a fully grown carpet/woma/watever when they know food is coming. Makes for unnecessary bites in my opinion.

Sent from my LG-P690f using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bart70]

My MD and Bredli are gentle pussycats at any other time......Except when food is around!

I feed them in their enclosure of an evening before going to bed.......I have no desire to even contemplate handling them anytime soon after a feed - I would be seriously asking for grief and be deserved of it if I tried.

They are a different animal in feed mode.....Their body language says it all.

 

[BeZaKa]

I have a min/max thermometer and the get down to about 10 degrees in the coldest part of winter but also my hides are made from expanda foam and grout and my snakes curl up in them overnight which may insulate quite well.

Sorry to hi jack the thread but I appreciate this info. Is the following correct to say. After 12 months of age you provide heat during the day, min temp thermo controlled to no less than 10 degrees at night, don't feed at these temps (winter) and don't handle??? Sorry for the newbie questions but there seems to be a lot of variation to this. Ps. I understand this is also species specific, im thinking woma, bhp. Thanks in advance

 

[Lawra]

Hi Jamie,

Without being rude:

A) I do understand reptile biology, at least well enough to be comfortable purchasing a python and then caring for him. I am sure the well reputed breeder would not have sold me one if he felt I would be an unfit owner.

B) Yes, I have an anthropomorphic view. But you are assuming much from the short posts I have submitted this far and you know the saying about "assuming" something...

C) Steve is with me when I'm not at work or sleeping... Did you assume I had a nice 9 - 5 job? Or perhaps a little casual one where I did only a couple of hours per day? Of course i must be tormenting my poor little snake because I'm so needy. If i wanted something to "play" with i would have gotten a damn puppy. Steve curls up under my shirt while I'm relaxing watching TV or studying. I'm not "agitating" him because if I were, don't you think he's not relax and go to sleep? Oh wait that's right you assumed...

D) I didn't realise that you were such a magnificent snake whisperer that you know exactly what goes on in my home. I don't feel that I should have to justify my actions to you at all. I am willing to admit (and have said previously) that I'm a newbie at this but I'm also a quick learner and happy to take advice and constructive criticism. What I'm not happy to do is be insulted by you. Needy? I think not.

E) Steve gets hand fed because he is very food crazy (as womas tend to be). Holding a rat on tongs in front of him gave him the opportunity to mistake my hand, my other hand, my foot and other body parts that could possibly move for potential food and was striking the glass. So after trying different methods I found that holding him with his head facing into his enclosure and holding the rat in tongs inside his enclosure would allow him to grab the rat and I would allow him to gentle roll off my hand and into his enclosure. (There was a comment about the rat possibly falling on the floor. No, its all done in his box) That being said, that method is for the first rat only. Subsequent rats are held in front of him as he finishes swallowing the last one.

I resent the fact that you jump to the conclusion that I am putting my own needs before Steve's. Sure, my posts probably didn't read as well as they could have and I'm sure you'd love to give me a grammar lesson.

I'm just hoping that because i have taken the time to dot point this for you that perhaps you understand a little better and it may possibly prevent you from being so quick to jump to conclusions next time.

My apologies for the conversation having gone slightly tangential to the thread.

 

[andynic07]

Sorry to hi jack the thread but I appreciate this info. Is the following correct to say. After 12 months of age you provide heat during the day, min temp thermo controlled to no less than 10 degrees at night, don't feed at these temps (winter) and don't handle??? Sorry for the newbie questions but there seems to be a lot of variation to this. Ps. I understand this is also species specific, im thinking woma, bhp. Thanks in advance

That is correct for what I do but I am not an expert and relatively new to keeping snakes as well. It has seemed to work for me, one thing I do though is keep a close eye out for RI and plan on increasing temperatures if I ever see any signs. Touch wood that so far I have not had any issues. I also use this as a guide for all of my different species.

Hi Jamie,

Without being rude:

A) I do understand reptile biology, at least well enough to be comfortable purchasing a python and then caring for him. I am sure the well reputed breeder would not have sold me one if he felt I would be an unfit owner.

B) Yes, I have an anthropomorphic view. But you are assuming much from the short posts I have submitted this far and you know the saying about "assuming" something...

C) Steve is with me when I'm not at work or sleeping... Did you assume I had a nice 9 - 5 job? Or perhaps a little casual one where I did only a couple of hours per day? Of course i must be tormenting my poor little snake because I'm so needy. If i wanted something to "play" with i would have gotten a damn puppy. Steve curls up under my shirt while I'm relaxing watching TV or studying. I'm not "agitating" him because if I were, don't you think he's not relax and go to sleep? Oh wait that's right you assumed...

D) I didn't realise that you were such a magnificent snake whisperer that you know exactly what goes on in my home. I don't feel that I should have to justify my actions to you at all. I am willing to admit (and have said previously) that I'm a newbie at this but I'm also a quick learner and happy to take advice and constructive criticism. What I'm not happy to do is be insulted by you. Needy? I think not.

E) Steve gets hand fed because he is very food crazy (as womas tend to be). Holding a rat on tongs in front of him gave him the opportunity to mistake my hand, my other hand, my foot and other body parts that could possibly move for potential food and was striking the glass. So after trying different methods I found that holding him with his head facing into his enclosure and holding the rat in tongs inside his enclosure would allow him to grab the rat and I would allow him to gentle roll off my hand and into his enclosure. (There was a comment about the rat possibly falling on the floor. No, its all done in his box) That being said, that method is for the first rat only. Subsequent rats are held in front of him as he finishes swallowing the last one.

I resent the fact that you jump to the conclusion that I am putting my own needs before Steve's. Sure, my posts probably didn't read as well as they could have and I'm sure you'd love to give me a grammar lesson.

I'm just hoping that because i have taken the time to dot point this for you that perhaps you understand a little better and it may possibly prevent you from being so quick to jump to conclusions next time.

My apologies for the conversation having gone slightly tangential to the thread.

Just so you know , I am not taking sides in this debate but would like to let you know that if this back and forth continues this thread will be shut down and everyone will miss out. Also even though Jamie sometimes does not use much tact and something's can be hurtful he is very experienced in keeping reptiles and if you pick through his post he offers really good advice. My biggest piece of advice about this site is to try and take things to heart from members posts because some members can be quite blunt or appear to rude when that is not their intention.

 

[BeZaKa]

That is correct for what I do but I am not an expert and relatively new to keeping snakes as well. It has seemed to work for me, one thing I do though is keep a close eye out for RI and plan on increasing temperatures if I ever see any signs. Touch wood that so far I have not had any issues. I also use this as a guide for all of my different species.

Thanks Andy, advice appreciated

 

[Lawra]

I'm sorry, I really am.

I didn't mean for it to escalate and I shouldn't have been so defensive in my reply/rant.

I am a bit of a mother hen when it comes to Steve...

I can tell Jamie has a lot of experience and I was only trying to offer an alternate opinion above in regard to feeding because noone else suggested it...

As I said above I am a total newbie. I've gotten a lot of great info out of this thread and many others and would never want to be the cause of one getting shut down.

Again, my apologies.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I don't think this is tangential to the thread because at the heart of our discussion is the husbandry of what is, after all, still a "wild" animal, with the same intrinsic needs as a truly wild snake. True, I have made some assumptions, but not about your work patterns or anything else about you domestic/professional life. I don't think I need to give you any grammar lessons - you spell quite well and your sentences are well constructed, so any errors I may detect are probably typos... and even I make them !

You are mistaking the snake's tolerance of your interference with the development of some kind of "relationship" between you and the snake, but I'm just pointing out that this "relationship" is totally one-sided, the snake has no control whatsoever about what it does or when it does it. It's entirely up to you. I'm sure that your Woma feels exactly the same about you as would a brown snake, they just have different ways of showing it. You snake is not "sleeping" when it is inside your shirt or wherever it may be while you have it out of its cage - because it is subjected to the influences of you body movements and other factors in the area, it will be in a state of constant vigilance... in 50 years of keeping I've never been able to ascertain whether a snake is "asleep" or not.

I've offered constructive criticism... try and let your snake have a good amount of privacy for MOST of it's life, handle it sometimes, but give it the dignity it deserves as a non-domestic animal. The "relationship" you force upon it is yours, not the snake's...

Jamie

 

[Lawra]

Thank you I try to make sense... Doesn't always come across though lol.

I am not arrogant enough to think that Steve views me as anything other than some weird interruption that shoves a camera in his face. I used the term relationship ironically and used a question mark... My subtle humour doesn't translate over text very well unfortunately and the term seems to have stuck. That's ok I'll wear it.

I should have made it clear that I only have a few hours per day awake and at home (except weekends) so he gets handles for an hour or so four days a week. I don't think that's too much, but I can see how it could have come across as an excessive amount.

He really is awesome, and we interact well. Though I am interested to know if you think my feeding methods may prove detrimental as he grows older. I do want to show you how it works, I wasn't being smart when I offered to get a vid of his next feed. My method allows him to strike away from me and then he doesn't get distracted by any other movement; as you know once womas smell food they strike at anything that moves, including their own reflection as they have no heat sensors (challenging at times!)

Thank you for your constructive criticism. It is always helpful to gain insight from people more experienced. Although I'd like to think that us young-uns can come up with a few fresh ideas now and again

 

[Lawra]

Although I must add... Up until recently Steve has been treated somewhat like a spoilt child... I was starting out and learning and treated him like a piece of glass and basically let him do whatever he wanted for fear of him getting annoyed and biting me.

It's a learning process He's only head butted me once so far and I think that was because my breath smelt bad lol.

 

[RedFox]

My method allows him to strike away from me and then he doesn't get distracted by any other movement; as you know once womas smell food they strike at anything that moves, including their own reflection as they have no heat sensors (challenging at times!)

Aspidites do have heat sensors. It was previously thought that they didn't and appeared in old care sheets. They don't have multiple heat pits along both sides of their jaw like other pythons. Instead it is thought the heat pit is, if you look at your womas face, that pit just under the nose scale.

They do not get their reflection mixed up with food, more likely it saw you through the glass. I used to hand feed both of mine, (I was to lazy and thought it was a waste of money buying tongs, stupid me) but found if the rat wasn't warm enough they would look at my hand instead. This lead to a few bites and close calls.

If it works for you that is fine but I would not recommend it to those with fussy, young or shy snakes as being held by what they perceive as a predator may put them off their food.

As for the video, I for one would be interested to see.

As for Jamie he is one of, if not the most knowledgeable member on this forum and is very passionate about the wellbeing of our captives. Sometimes he can come across very blunt because of this.