Banning Snakes in the USA - Next Australia?
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There is a real need for a national body in my opinion. To think that we can just keep flying under the radar of various animal rights groups is naive in the extreme.
Rather than trying to figure out all the reasons why a national body won't work, why not put as much thought into working out how it can work.
Rather than trying to figure out all the reasons why a national body won't work, why not put as much thought into working out how it can work.
carpetmuncher
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yeah, and nobody ever bred any, they just took annual trips to make buck from the one's that survived. and everybody kept them in a re-used cupboard with a globe in it. and the snakes were lucky to live a year so they knew who would need a replacement. yeah, bring back the old days.
I agree that there needs to be a national body but I think we as a community need to change our approach to the regulators. The very real fact is we do not have it that bad in Australia (maybe if you do if you live in WA ). I think we need to provide positive feedback to the regulators where relevant rather than just blasting them for any issue that comes up. A national organisation will need to be comprised of respected herpers who can taken n a leadership role and work with the regulators rather than just getting in their face. Having attended the founding meeting for the NRKA I feel that this group has the foundation to meet that criteria.
I think if we stop acting as though it is our right to keep native species however we see fit and start projecting the very real truth that we feel privileged to be able to experience these native animals in our own home the animal rights argument appears irrelevant. The fact that we are only allowed to keep native species is (and will continue to be) in our favour and I feel that the exotics argument should be dropped completely.
We need to appear as a law abiding commercial or hobby group, not a bunch of self serving arrogant rednecks (I am not indicting anyone here). What was recently achieved in NSW is a fine example of what is possible nation wide and I hope this will become the archetype for future changes to reptile keeping regulations.
Damien
). I think we need to provide positive feedback to the regulators where relevant rather than just blasting them for any issue that comes up. A national organisation will need to be comprised of respected herpers who can taken n a leadership role and work with the regulators rather than just getting in their face. Having attended the founding meeting for the NRKA I feel that this group has the foundation to meet that criteria.I think if we stop acting as though it is our right to keep native species however we see fit and start projecting the very real truth that we feel privileged to be able to experience these native animals in our own home the animal rights argument appears irrelevant. The fact that we are only allowed to keep native species is (and will continue to be) in our favour and I feel that the exotics argument should be dropped completely.
We need to appear as a law abiding commercial or hobby group, not a bunch of self serving arrogant rednecks (I am not indicting anyone here). What was recently achieved in NSW is a fine example of what is possible nation wide and I hope this will become the archetype for future changes to reptile keeping regulations.
Damien
snakelover
Not so new Member
I somehow goofed in previous post - it didn't find its way onto the thread. This one will be quite a bit shorter, sorry about that.
I agree with the sentiments of Simon, as well as Damien and others. There's no need yet for hysteria, but we do need a responsible and responsive national representative body to ensure that government agencies have ready access to industry/hobby input. Should radical animal welfare sentiments gain increased traction with governments and wildlife agencies in the future, we will be there to have our collective voice heard in a timely manner.
Regards,
John W
I agree with the sentiments of Simon, as well as Damien and others. There's no need yet for hysteria, but we do need a responsible and responsive national representative body to ensure that government agencies have ready access to industry/hobby input. Should radical animal welfare sentiments gain increased traction with governments and wildlife agencies in the future, we will be there to have our collective voice heard in a timely manner.
Regards,
John W
moosenoose
Legendary
The difference between guns and reptiles in this country was one was a national tragedy, the latter hasn't been an issue as yet and I'd be amazed if it ever was! I think there are plenty more alluring topics on the agendas of animal rights activists than a relatively quiet group of people keeping reptiles. How are these activists going with live-exports??? Anything changed there yet??
Clearly this US senate bill is a knee-jerk reaction resultant of decades of abuse at the hands of both breeders and hobbyists alike in regards to giant “exotic” python species. The smartest thing this country (Australia) has ever done was keep these animals outlawed, and by doing so HAS and WILL protect the everyday amateur herpetologist’s interests.
Laws aren’t made for no reason. They come about as a result of something that has happened or could potentially happen. We’re not about to get Salties living in the Yarra River :lol: Venomous snake licensing (to me) seems a little too relaxed – especially here in Victoria. A potential problem is having someone lose a taipan, or some other “State-exotic” elapid in backyard suburbia and having an infant/child die as a result of a bite; having a problem identifying the species and/or not having the correct anti-venom at hand to deal with it! There’s certainly one major problem I can see, and if it results in a ban or a limitation placed on keepers because someone was sloppy with the charge a certain species – then so be it!
The ones who are squealing and getting into frenzy about all this here are ones with an invested interest. I have none. It’s a hobby for me plain and simple. Personally I think the panicking on this issue is unwarranted and all its achieving is producing a lot of hot air. I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong should it swing the other way :lol: ….but this particular ban in the States has been LONG overdue.
Clearly this US senate bill is a knee-jerk reaction resultant of decades of abuse at the hands of both breeders and hobbyists alike in regards to giant “exotic” python species. The smartest thing this country (Australia) has ever done was keep these animals outlawed, and by doing so HAS and WILL protect the everyday amateur herpetologist’s interests.
Laws aren’t made for no reason. They come about as a result of something that has happened or could potentially happen. We’re not about to get Salties living in the Yarra River :lol: Venomous snake licensing (to me) seems a little too relaxed – especially here in Victoria. A potential problem is having someone lose a taipan, or some other “State-exotic” elapid in backyard suburbia and having an infant/child die as a result of a bite; having a problem identifying the species and/or not having the correct anti-venom at hand to deal with it! There’s certainly one major problem I can see, and if it results in a ban or a limitation placed on keepers because someone was sloppy with the charge a certain species – then so be it!
The ones who are squealing and getting into frenzy about all this here are ones with an invested interest. I have none. It’s a hobby for me plain and simple. Personally I think the panicking on this issue is unwarranted and all its achieving is producing a lot of hot air. I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong should it swing the other way :lol: ….but this particular ban in the States has been LONG overdue.
re Banning
You need to have a national committee that is made up and voted for by the members of existing herpetological societies,created from the ground up,that way it can be said that it is a democratic system.
Getting a letter sent out to the various societys around australia so that they can discuss it first with their members first would be the way to go,allot of reptile keepers out there dont get on the internet and a system to create a national body needs to take advantage of the branches that we already have much as the banking sector does.
You need to have a national committee that is made up and voted for by the members of existing herpetological societies,created from the ground up,that way it can be said that it is a democratic system.
Getting a letter sent out to the various societys around australia so that they can discuss it first with their members first would be the way to go,allot of reptile keepers out there dont get on the internet and a system to create a national body needs to take advantage of the branches that we already have much as the banking sector does.
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
I'm not a frequent visitor or contributor to APS, but Joy K alerted me to this thread, and its significance to the keepng hobby here.
The problem with the keeping community here in Australia is that it is relatively new (not much more than 10-12 years established) and as a result, is made up of many naive 'youngsters' who have no idea how difficult it has been to get where we are today, state by state.
Many of the bureaucrats that prevented keeping for the past 30 years remain in positions of influence today, and have bent to change only because of well targeted political pressure brought to bear by tireless old herpers who spent years cutting through the crap and achieving the changes which occurred a decade or so ago. To suggest that these bureucrats and ancient scientists don't want to go back to the good old days where anyone who kept a reptile was in breach of the law and easily prosecuted, is dangerous indeed. They do.
Animal rights groups are active in this country, and are extremely skilled at political lobbying, usually well under the radar so you don't know what's coming until it's on your doorstep. Don't fool yourself that it can't happen here, because it can and it will unless keepers as a group act collectively, with responsibility, to demonstrate that keeping and breeding reptiles is a legitimate activity, and one in which we are entitiled to participate.
The NRKA has been incorporated, and I will get details up here as soon as I can. It was to be formally launched at the Scales & Tails bash in October, but I was unable to be there. All those involved at the outset have been very busy this past 2-3 months, but I will ensure we have an opportunity to get together soon after Xmas so we can get the show on the road.
It is, as respondents have pointed out, difficult to get consensus from such a diverse group as the reptile keeping community in this country, and this has been very evident in a couple of discussions on another site. However, my feeling about it is that if you have nothing positive to contribute, don't catch the train. You are not even welcome on the platform. There are as many dismantlers as assemblers out there in reptile land... the former just waste our time and damage our image.
This has nothing to do with the US wanting to adopt our system, it is an opportunistic response by animal rights people, who have found and worked on sympathetic political ears in the US, and facilitated by very foolish, irresponsible keepers who have provided the ammunition they need.
If the complacent herp keeping community here doesn't lift its game, we can look forward to very similar pressures in Australia.
Jamie.
The problem with the keeping community here in Australia is that it is relatively new (not much more than 10-12 years established) and as a result, is made up of many naive 'youngsters' who have no idea how difficult it has been to get where we are today, state by state.
Many of the bureaucrats that prevented keeping for the past 30 years remain in positions of influence today, and have bent to change only because of well targeted political pressure brought to bear by tireless old herpers who spent years cutting through the crap and achieving the changes which occurred a decade or so ago. To suggest that these bureucrats and ancient scientists don't want to go back to the good old days where anyone who kept a reptile was in breach of the law and easily prosecuted, is dangerous indeed. They do.
Animal rights groups are active in this country, and are extremely skilled at political lobbying, usually well under the radar so you don't know what's coming until it's on your doorstep. Don't fool yourself that it can't happen here, because it can and it will unless keepers as a group act collectively, with responsibility, to demonstrate that keeping and breeding reptiles is a legitimate activity, and one in which we are entitiled to participate.
The NRKA has been incorporated, and I will get details up here as soon as I can. It was to be formally launched at the Scales & Tails bash in October, but I was unable to be there. All those involved at the outset have been very busy this past 2-3 months, but I will ensure we have an opportunity to get together soon after Xmas so we can get the show on the road.
It is, as respondents have pointed out, difficult to get consensus from such a diverse group as the reptile keeping community in this country, and this has been very evident in a couple of discussions on another site. However, my feeling about it is that if you have nothing positive to contribute, don't catch the train. You are not even welcome on the platform. There are as many dismantlers as assemblers out there in reptile land... the former just waste our time and damage our image.
This has nothing to do with the US wanting to adopt our system, it is an opportunistic response by animal rights people, who have found and worked on sympathetic political ears in the US, and facilitated by very foolish, irresponsible keepers who have provided the ammunition they need.
If the complacent herp keeping community here doesn't lift its game, we can look forward to very similar pressures in Australia.
Jamie.
Ozzie Python
Very Well-Known Member
Well, there you go, DEC is viewing this thread as i type. I would love to see what they have to say on this topic.
Look forward to seeing how the NRKA comes along Jamie, maybe this would be another hot topic for further discussion
Look forward to seeing how the NRKA comes along Jamie, maybe this would be another hot topic for further discussion
Pythons Rule
Very Well-Known Member
oh ok well there ya go I was just about to post all my beliefs but with whats just been said its quite scarry and I hope to dear gog it never does happen to us I quite like being able to keep these stunning animals.
best of luck with you guys over there.
best of luck with you guys over there.
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Feeding snakes cute intellegent animals that have been created and killed so the snake can be kept in a small plastic box wouldnt be too popular if they took the time to look at it.
Animal liberationists typically have a distorted view of nature and think every single animal should be happy, unrestrained, safe and live forever without having any negative impact on other life and they also typical think killing animals is cruel unless done by injection. These sort of ideals are obviously in direct conflict with reptile keeping.
moosenoose
Legendary
.......Tofu eating folk who still use parkbark for toiletpaper
I have read several of these posts, and the question that a prospective US ban raises for me is: on what grounds?
Clearly the media jungle grapevine from the US suggests that the grounds may be due to irresponsible and poorly legislated reptile ownership. Responsible ownership includes proper controls of breeding and selling of reptiles, training and education for owners, and a full registration scheme to enable the tracking of reptiles and their owners. I would suggest that in Australia, we are partially there.
I don’t want to enter the heated debate about state by state legislation, but there clearly needs to be education for all potential reptile owners so they are fully aware of their responsibility as a reptile owner before they become one, and continuing education and training to ensure that owners understand such things as the importance of quarantine, safety and responsible breeding practices.
It would be naïve of me to suggest that legislation alone will protect reptile owners in this country, but there is one thing I do agree with, and that is Simon’s sentiments that this should not be an emotional issue – if this should become a political issue, only objectivity and evidence based argument will save the hobby.
Vicki
Clearly the media jungle grapevine from the US suggests that the grounds may be due to irresponsible and poorly legislated reptile ownership. Responsible ownership includes proper controls of breeding and selling of reptiles, training and education for owners, and a full registration scheme to enable the tracking of reptiles and their owners. I would suggest that in Australia, we are partially there.
I don’t want to enter the heated debate about state by state legislation, but there clearly needs to be education for all potential reptile owners so they are fully aware of their responsibility as a reptile owner before they become one, and continuing education and training to ensure that owners understand such things as the importance of quarantine, safety and responsible breeding practices.
It would be naïve of me to suggest that legislation alone will protect reptile owners in this country, but there is one thing I do agree with, and that is Simon’s sentiments that this should not be an emotional issue – if this should become a political issue, only objectivity and evidence based argument will save the hobby.
Vicki
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
Yes indeed, don't make the mistake of thinking that this is primarily about reptiles and keepers - it's about a philosophy, often loopy, usually distorted, and rarely rational. Zealots are dangerous, whatever they seek to achieve.
J.
J.
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
If herpers finally decide that reporting the sale of exotics is a good thing then we have no worries in Australia [look at GPTs as a classic example with lots of PNG strains available]
The only potential problem is with breeding weakened strains of reptiles such as albinos and them getting loose as they could quickly weaken wild strains and could need culling
Exotics may look pretty
But they can cost a lot more than money
The only potential problem is with breeding weakened strains of reptiles such as albinos and them getting loose as they could quickly weaken wild strains and could need culling
Exotics may look pretty
But they can cost a lot more than money
Wild~Touch
Very Well-Known Member
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party
I remember this saying from when I was a kid and here we go - let's put it to good use.
The Herpetological Society of Queensland Inc. will be in it for the long haul
Cheers
Sandee
I remember this saying from when I was a kid and here we go - let's put it to good use.
The Herpetological Society of Queensland Inc. will be in it for the long haul
Cheers
Sandee
Colin
morelia
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great stuff Jamie.. let us all know about membership etc please mate.
CarpetPythons.com.au
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Is the NRKA a non-profit organisation? Who are the representatives of the NRKA and wich states do they represent?
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