Banning Snakes in the USA - Next Australia?

[zulu]

re Banning

Got to admitt it was a very good post by wheezer,ide still like to see the NRKA running though,led Pete Jonson and Jamie Stuart Pythoninfite,they are the Joe Tripodi and Eddie Obeid of the NSW herp scene.

 

[Chimera]

Damien

Damien, I'm not sure what you mean by this. The outcome as you see it now differs substantially from what could have been, and results from many, many hours work by all involved, including DECC NPWS staff. As is usually the case, quite a bit of the to & fro arguments were generated by one particular individual who had a poorly informed, idealogical attitude, which had no basis in practical, or even humane, management.

I think participants on both sides of the table were generally quite satisfied with the outcome.

Jamie.

I believe those involved in the consultative process did so in a productive manner. My comments are based (funnily enough) on some of the newer keepers who carried on in public forums before the standards were even finalised.

I have no doubt that getting where we are now was an arduous process and in each of my posts I have made the point that this should be an example to be taken to other states of herpers working with legislative bodies. I also think that the fact that key members of the NRKA were involved in this process means that they will be well placed to take this model to other states.

Damien

 

[PilbaraPythons]

It sounds to me like a better strength would lay in an organisation that collectively represented sectors of the community keeping any native wildlife; after all, I am sure the bird keepers (and perhaps fish keepers?) would outnumber the reptile community.

 

[zulu]

re Banning

It sounds to me like a better strength would lay in an organisation that collectively represented sectors of the community keeping any native wildlife; after all, I am sure the bird keepers (and perhaps fish keepers?) would outnumber the reptile community.

The NRKA is already here,mabe you can make a WANRKA :lol:

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Dave, that's something that has already been suggested by a few others interested in these issues. It is indeed a very good idea I think, and the suggestion was made that all native animal keepers (mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, inverts and even plant enthusiasts) should organise a national conference to discuss our concerns about the status of our wildlife generally.

I indicated in my Scales & Tails articles recently that native animals are in critical decline in much of the country, some explainable, some for no obvious reason. But this is a topic for another thread.

Jamie.

 

[Twin_Rivers]

How come so many of you call your pets Native Wildlife?
My reptiles are all captive born from captive born from captive born and apart from our Blue Tongue none of the are native to this area. There is nothing Wild about any of them. We have a cat we found that was feral as a kitten that is more wild than any of my Reptiles. If the herp community keep these animals and call them wildlife it, to me anyway, conjures images of people out catching animals as pets not animals bred in capivity specially for the purpose of being a pet.

 

[Sdaji]

How come so many of you call your pets Native Wildlife?
My reptiles are all captive born from captive born from captive born and apart from our Blue Tongue none of the are native to this area. There is nothing Wild about any of them. We have a cat we found that was feral as a kitten that is more wild than any of my Reptiles. If the herp community keep these animals and call them wildlife it, to me anyway, conjures images of people out catching animals as pets not animals bred in capivity specially for the purpose of being a pet.

It's an interesting topic, I agree, 'wildlife' is probably not the best term for captive bred animals and I would prefer them to be called something else. However, the RSPCA, PETA, etc, wish to ban the keeping of these animals, whatever we choose to call them. Moving away from the term 'wildlife' would be a small step in the right direction in terms of public opinion, although for some reason whenever this suggestion is made among reptile keepers, most of them are very protective of the term wildlife and want to maintain the 'wildlife' status of their animals. To me, 'wildlife' is in the wild, and captive bred animals are captive animals.

 

[elapid@]

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! You crack me up!!!!!!! This site really needs a "censored" smilie, or something to more accurately convey exactly what it is that I'm feeling right now.

Guess what we have problems with here in the US. Cane toads and feral cats! Guess what are far more widespread than snakes. Cane toads and feral cats! Guess what this bill does NOT affect. CANE TOADS AND FERAL CATS!!!!

Your thought processes are dangerous for the Australian reptile community. Ask me how I know. Never mind....I'll tell you. People over here have been saying for years that it "wont happen". If you think this is about the impact on the environment, you are sadly mistaken....it has very little to do with the actual problem. It is centered around powerful lobbying groups that consist of eco-terrorists funded by good hearted folks who think they are donating money to help poor, cute, neglected cats and dogs. They think wrong!

wont happen to me:lol:

 

[Pythoninfinite]

They are regarded as fauna by licensing authorities Australia wide, so we have no other way of describing them, regardless of their provenance. I do agree with you though, captive bred reptiles have no real place in conservation, they can't be released, and in my opinion should not be subject to the licensing regimes they currently are.

On another note, it is interesting how these debates start out as serious discussions about serious topics, and degenerate into personal slanging matches. My basic reason for coming here to discuss this issue was to add information that may prove useful or helpful, and to keep fellow herpers in the picture from another perspective. I'm not going to offer any defence to what has been said about me, because none is needed. Weezer has clearly taken a dislike to me for some reason, knows far more about me than I do about him... but good luck to him. I should point out that this isn't a competition, or at least I didn't think it was. The discussion has trivialised a potentially very serious situation.

I'll post more details about the NRKA very soon, and you can form your own opinions.

Jamie.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

It about time we got a website purely to bring together all these different groups as a collective body.
I would be more than willing to pay for its construction.

 

[krefft]

The energy that seems to be spent on bickering and infighting while this organisation is still in it's infancy is ridiculous. We are playing in to the hands of those opposing us.

I think we are all in agreement that there needs to be a body representing us. The reason that Simon/Jamie/John etc are involved are because they are the ones that got off their backsides and decided to do something about it.

I suggest if you are unhappy with the way it's currently being handled offer some clear ideas that can be discussed and debated.
There has been plenty written on what people don't like about it. I would be interested to hear what you do like instead.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Thank you Chris!

Jamie.

 

[jahan]

May be the NRKA needs some one that every body knows, some that the general public likes and respects, like a Dr Harry who has featured reptiles on his show many times over the years?

 

[Doc]

I just got a chance to catch up on the last 5 pages of this thread. It seems to me there has been some worthwhile debate and perhaps a little chest beating. I don't see the formation of a national group as particularly difficult, not funding it - the difficult part is to get experienced, capable, effective, energetic people to commit the time and effort required to make it a success.

Whether you believe worrying about our rights to keep reptiles is scare mongering or not, there are many State laws and restrictions that are crazy and it would be good to have a national group to provide pressure/input to correct some of the nonsense. It would also be good to have a lobby group that can explain to our law makers the very positive impact our hobby has had on educating Australians attitudes towards reptiles which are a major component of the Australian fauna and most terrestrial ecosystems.

As suggested by Dave, a group that could come together to represent the keeping of all Australian fauna would be of benefit. However, reptile keeping has its uniques and is usually a poor cousin in regards to keeping when compared to other groups like birds. I think we need to be able to look after ourselves first without the complication of all wildlife.

In the final analysis, despite the bickering and feuding etc, I'm an optimist that there are enough of us that care for the hobby, that will be willing to sacrifice the time to make a difference and form a national group. I am not as confident that in the long run we will be able to maintain our rights, but one thing I do feel certain of it that without the former the risk of the later will be greatly increased. Our hobby is in its teens at best and maybe a national group will help it grow and mature.

 

[ihaveherps]

Jamie, I will wait for your upcoming explainations regarding the structure and prety much overall outline of this latest incarnation of the NRKA, before questioning it, and/or making any judgements. I think everyone should step back until then, then, at the very least focus on real issues rather than inventing them.

Though Jamie, for a while now this ball has been set in motion, and apart from a fair dose of rhetoric, we, the herp keeping public, have absolutely no idea of the agendas and constitution of the group that proposes to represent us. Stop treating us as Mushrooms.... keeping us in the dark and feeding on bull crap.... If nothing, the aimless argumentative nature of this thread, must have bought to light that the herp keeping public need to be kept in the loop, as we are the NRKA's lifeblood.... the excuse of being short of time and such, hell, we can be put on hold by countless beaurocratic departments.... though heed my words, I wont support an entity that doesnt keep me informed, and Im guessing there are many others in the same boat. Thus far the ball has been dropped, I mean, for all we know, you dont even have a ball to play with.....

I more fear being represented poorly, than not being represented at all....

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Nobody, as far as I know, is being kept in the dark. If the NRKA fails to to float because it doesn't get the support of the herp keeping community, so be it, but trying to tailor an organisation to suit all members is a difficult thing.

If it turns out that those who are doing what they can to ensure the security of the hobby are subjected to insults and threats, then you will have the system inflicting change on you whether you like it or not.

I'm not making excuses Ihaveherps. I am not accountable to you or anyone else for my time at this stage, I will do what I can when I can, at a time that suits me, and the same goes for other members of the founder team. There is nothing to keep you informed of at the moment either, so you are not being left out of the loop.

Whether you join as a paid member and support the NRKA is up to you.

Jamie.

 

[ihaveherps]

I will do what I can when I can, at a time that suits me, and the same goes for other members of the founder team.

doesnt paraphrasing suck......

funny though.... Im sure most of us dont want to be represented at your leisure... if the boot is too big, maybe we need someone with bigger feet!

 

[tooninoz]

The thread has morphed into a discussion regarding the NRKA, and understandably. Some people are upset that the proposed committee is stacked with 'elites' and that it doesn't seem to involve the 'plebs' and it's sad that people can't seem to move beyond that?

What does it matter if you weren't invited on to the committee? It's an association with a committee, and you'll have your chance to vote in/out the members of your choice. I'd much rather have that than the disjointed mess that currently exists.

If you don't like it, don't join it.

 

[zulu]

re Banning

The thread has morphed into a discussion regarding the NRKA, and understandably. Some people are upset that the proposed committee is stacked with 'elites' and that it doesn't seem to involve the 'plebs' and it's sad that people can't seem to move beyond that?

What does it matter if you weren't invited on to the committee? It's an association with a committee, and you'll have your chance to vote in/out the members of your choice. I'd much rather have that than the disjointed mess that currently exists.

If you don't like it, don't join it.

Basically ide support Doc Rock as he can put an idea over without sounding too arrogant,its a really important quality when your dealing with people,some need to learn how to deflate the head so they can fit through the door IMO

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

doesnt paraphrasing suck......

funny though.... Im sure most of us dont want to be represented at your leisure... if the boot is too big, maybe we need someone with bigger feet!

Most of us? Seriously though, even I, as a very inexperienced "mushroom" have had a chance to speak with John Wiegel about this in person. If you feel you can offer something useful to this process, then do so. None of these "elites" of which you speak are living on the moon, contact them, put some effort in, write something up, just do something instead of moaning. I am certain that the proof will be in the pudding as far as the NRKA goes. If it builds a membership and can affect change, it is because it's members got involved. Of course this organization does not have mandatory membership, you are more than free to do nothing at all if you feel that is the best course of action for you.

The thread has morphed into a discussion regarding the NRKA, and understandably. Some people are upset that the proposed committee is stacked with 'elites' and that it doesn't seem to involve the 'plebs' and it's sad that people can't seem to move beyond that?

What does it matter if you weren't invited on to the committee? It's an association with a committee, and you'll have your chance to vote in/out the members of your choice. I'd much rather have that than the disjointed mess that currently exists.

If you don't like it, don't join it.

Well said Tooninoz. It would appear to be stacked with 'elites' for the simple fact that these 'elites' have gotten off their butts to do something about it. Good on them I say. Given the exponential growth of this hobby in recent years, this sort of organisation could go a long way to facilitating the herp community's voices being heard by some of the right people when those voices need hearing. Quite frankly, no governmental institution or otherwise, is going to listen to inane whining on an internet forum, they will want information and dialog from people with degrees, decades of experience, and professional backgrounds in the field in which they represent. What part of this is difficult to understand?

To borrow from Krefft's sig: "No one has built a statue to honour a critic." (lol, this will get mis-interpreted!)