Amyae or Asper

[ari]

Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

Also be aware Toad that there are some unscrupulous morons out there hybridising the two either due to misinformation, greed or stupidity (you take your pick). The hybrid animals retain mostly amyae characteristics in terms of size but have asper colour coming through. It is a possibility if the size comment above rings true.

If this is the case then the so called morons producing hybrids should be named immediately & stopped in their tracks. Not only is this illegal but it completely wrecks the bloodline of both Amyae & Asper.

The problem is that most of us apart from certain individuals have no indepth knowledge on what to look for & in most cases would suspect any individual specimen with tan to orange colouring to be Amyae, and anything grey to black in colouration to be Asper (this can & is misrepresented in books & articles)

Individuals would have and still currently would be purchasing individuals not knowing 100% what they are & accidentally (not knowing) then continuing to cross things they think are the same species.

Correct me if I am wrong but the article in Reptiles Australia on Amyae/Asper states nothing at all about a comparision related to spiny length & or clusters - so whats the go there with that article.

Some individuals seem more concerned in purchasing to breed & making a quick buck without really knowing what they are purchasing - furthermore any individual purchasing items must be aware that their movement advice is a great backup for conflicts as what is stated on that movement advice (legal document) is great proof of what they are purchasing - if that turns out to not be the case (fraud) well I think they are safe to say full refund required.

This post is exactly the same as previous post I have placed with individuals stating "there Amyae" when infact they don't real know - there is far too many irregularates to say for sure - most people are going by colour alone on there assumptions or other significant characteristics which can still alter from individual to individual.

The possibility of individuals purposely crossing to produce hybrids actually makes me SICK at the thought.

Furthermore I wish to add to all those people considering purchasing Amyae & or Asper for that matter - DO NOT BUY ANY SPECIMENS FOR BREEDING PURPOSES THAT ARE AGED OVER 6 YRS OF AGE.....YOU COULD BE WAITING FOR YEARS TO GET AN EGG.

Furthermore I suggest purchasing from repretable breeders or referrals from repretable breeders only & certainly consider purchasing juvies only. Buying specimens of an adult nature is far to risky furthermore ask yourself this question " If you had a breeding pair of rare Amyae or Asper would you sell them if they constantly keep laying & all is well"? Obviously this isn't always the case but just be wary.

Cheers

Ari

 

[Toad]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

Ari, point taken on age. Seller was moving them due to personal reasons.
Im really still none the wiser on what i have. By posting i was hoping to get everyones thoughts and hopefully understand what i have.
I have 2 animals i call Amyae (Br Pr) and 1 that i have had confirmed in the flesh yesterday as Asper. Problem i have is that i purchased them all as Amyae and paperwork that also states this.
I know for sure that if i sell the animal in question this topic will arise again!
If i bred them and end crossing the two species i then become one of those Morons and by doing this doesnt do the species any justice!!!
Almost turns me of them completely......... seeing that i cant confirm what they are.

Toad

 

[indicus]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

Heres a Asper for you to compare Toad.....as you can see quite different.

 

[ari]

The age of Amyae / Asper wasn't directed at you matey - it was more to others thats all, so they dont get bitten so to speak, your situation with your new pair I believe is different - genuine reasons.

I understand what you are saying completely......100%

This post will be interesting - once someone else in the know advises what they actually are. It is a hard call - believe me I have tried.

Kind Regards

 

[geckodan]

I still have difficulty with the fact that nobody is concerned about calling a 115mm ,15 month old animal an asper (the truest of true amyae's have trouble reaching this size by that age). Rump spines or otherwise, size is one of the three distinguishing features (the other two being rump spines and toe banding) and prior to the discovery of the cape york forms, 85 mm was the standard adult size for an asper. Has your unnamed identifier documented a wild red asper of this size???

 

[Toad]

Have just taken more pics of all three.

 

[ari]

Yes

Without a doubt there is a major variance - infact an amazing variance.

Now compare them with my Alice Springs Amyae female.

 

[ari]

I now for the first time can also notice with your 3 in the head shot the minimal lining on the head compared to your others.

Also the spine variation on the rump is very evident too Anthony.

And notice the lack of banding on the feet.

 

[ari]

Now compare this to my guaranteed Asper female - she is abit obese

 

[Toad]

Ari, yes your Alice Springs female.Look at her rump, tail and hind legs??????(Nice animal) Yes amyae!

Your Asper i do notice that they have some white toes?????? My boy in question does have white feet and toes?

The head shot does show a big variance in markings.

 

[MDPython]

Personally i would listen to Geckodan!!!
imo he would know and for anyone else whos been lucky enough to see hes insane gecko setups!!!!
im sure they would agree. thanks.

Good luck with ya Breeding!!!! :mrgreen:

 

[Toad]

Thanks to all who posted replies.

I have had my question answered.

Toad

 

[ari]

Finally the verdict has come through from 2x of Australia's leading gecko enthusiasts - this specimen is indeed an Asper, and not an Amyae.

The specimen in question may have or has originated from the Dajarra which is out near Mt Isa (thanks Danny). Toad your measurements were incorrect it should actually be between 80-85mm from snout to vent.

 

[JasonL]

a few years ago you would not have had a problem as they were all "asper"

 

[ari]

Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

a few years ago you would not have had a problem as they were all "asper"

On paper that is.

 

[JasonL]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

To me they are just variants of the same species, with the larger amyae's around the NT merging into the darker, smaller asper's in North Qld. The ones at either end of their range are quite different animals but ones in the middle?? a bit like carpets and diamonds.

 

[Magpie]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

I'm with you JasonL, too many splitters around these days. How can you split them into new species based on such poorly defined criteria?

 

[Retic]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

I am inclined to agree there, everything seems to point to them being Amyae but they are still being referred to as Asper.

 

[ari]

RE: Re: RE: Amyae or Asper

It isn't really a poorly defined citeria - if you had any idea on the investigations Toad and myself have been through you would understand. All variables & I mean all push towards Asper without a doubt. The problem that this post is, & could cause is all those breeders may question what they actually have. Asper is Asper & Amyae is Amyae you can actually see the difference when you know what you are looking for. If thats the case then why in heavens name do we have Nephrurus Asper & Nephrurus Amyae? Why not just call them all Asper or all Amyae?

 

[ari]

Look at Toads first pic with all 3 lined up - if you can't see the difference well then I dont know what to say.

Its so visibly obvious, and all 3 are fully grown.