Exporting Australian Reptiles - A naiv point of view?

[PilbaraPythons]

Jamie
I am guessing where they have DNA samples in their data bank from two ends of a species distribution extreme i.e. QLD BHP and PIlbara BHP, then they would be able to establish if there had been illegal importations ( smuggling ).
As far as falsly claiming a clutch, some keepers might be held acountable to some dgree with this technology but licenced collectors could still get away with much because of facts like sperm retention and mutiple matings unknown in the wild.

 

[REPTILIAN-KMAN]

Pilbara pythons - Sperm rentention - i was discussing this the other week in reptiles do u have much knowlegde in this area !

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Dave, as I understand it, the sampling they are doing at the moment is only useful for proving parental provenance, i.e. mitochondrial DNA. The broader issue of profiling locale specific animals would require them to have a huge and vastly expensive DNA database, with info on thousands of animals of each species, someone in the know mentioned to me the sum of around $80K - $100K per species. I don't think their funds allow for this, and what purpose would it serve anyway to justify such an expense?

They rely on people having a poor understanding of the process, and to remain threatened by a process which may never eventuate.

Jamie

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I am not up to speed with what thery are doing with this DNA collection or their long term goals with it but I thought I was told by the DEC officers that took samples here, that they were going to establish some large data base on the different locales which sounded interesting, I guess I got that part wrong then.

For those interested in the subject of wildlife export you may enjoy reading a senate report from June 1998 on the commercial utilization of Australian native wildlife.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Dave, they are by nature, very conservative about what they will tell you about their 'plans', but to my knowledge, there simply aren't the funds available, considering the costs involved, and the so-called benefit of doing such work. But they rely on rumour to do a lot of their work for them. At the end of the day, what is the point of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars doing complex DNA profiling on species which are extremely common in the trade, here and overseas? Who cares if someone in WA has a Queensland Blackheaded Python - only DEC... and it's a measure of their obsession that they spend so much time & money in the pursuit of such trivial and pointless activities.

At the end of the day, all this does is drive people underground... they won't stop any of the activities they hope to prevent, all they do is ensure that those activities continue out of sight, and the intrusive nature of their own activities pretty much means that they don't get anywhere near the level of cooperation from keepers that they could expect if they had a more collaborative approach.

J

 

[Kirby]

The legalities come down to one point, and one point only really.

The reptiles we keep on license, are technically protected wildlife not pets.

 

[Sunnette]

With Australia's favorable climate, I think the import rules will never be relaxed. The authorities are right in a way of avoiding accidental epidemic of exotic pets escaping and breeding uncontrollably. There are a few examples from the past that can be quoted, like cats, cane toads (I know introduced, still same principal applies) etc. These populations of non native animals can really harm Australian native fauna and flora. This is why we have no hamsters etc. However, I believe we now can obtain squirrels from very few Sydney pet stores and at a crazy $1200 each. There is a catch though, they come de-sexed, not sure you can do that with reptiles. If it's possible, maybe there is a chance in the future.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The legalities come down to one point, and one point only really.

The reptiles we keep on license, are technically protected wildlife not pets.

That's the legal quirk... when does a several generations captive bred reptile, never to be released into the wild, and of no consequence to conservation in any way whatsoever, cease to become 'fauna' and become a pet. Technically 'protected wildlife,' in ALL other respects... pets. It's about time for a national rethink about this issue...

Jamie

 

[junglepython2]

"Poaching would go through the roof if exports were legalised."

On what basis do you make a statement like this? Poaching of what? Many species are bred in captivity in large numbers now, here and overseas, and in many cases Australian species are cheaper overseas than they are here.

Blanket one liners like this stifle objective debate on what must, eventually, become a topic of interest to many people.
Jamie

If exports were legalised demand would go up, especially for locale animals which would way outstrip current supply levels. Of course people would take advantage of that and fudge wild caught animals onto the books for some quick cash. It's not rocket science. I know that is already happening now but the market here is tiny compared to what is o/s.

 

[damian83]

i have a cousin who moved to the usof a, and they have beardies in pet shops everywhere
so i dont know how they got there but there breeding them

 

[hornet]

This will depend on state laws, im pretty sure you can keep canetoads in Qld, they were legally imported and arnt a decalred pest. Im not sure on Asian House Geckos, they arnt a declared pest(in qld) but wernt legally imported as far as i know so keeping may not be legal.

You have to be kidding me, cane toads not a declared pest and legal to keep?

 

[Shredder]

The problem with re introducing animals back into the wild is that their may not be enough food to sustain them all.
If they eat all the food that is in their area then they all die in the wild extinction, we dont want that now do we.
If you try to introduce into another area you also cause problems for the predators who are doing the job in that area.
Biodiversity is a tricky subject and not solved with quick answers.
Lets face it you are talking to the wrong people on this forum because they have no authority to change the laws.
Make good discussion though.
The only people who can change the laws arent interested in reptiles but they are interested in making money, so if you can make a proposal to the right person and show them the benifits they might get on board and things might change.

You can own exotics in this country.
But you have to do the study first like become a zoologist and open up your own reptile park or fauna park and you can have them, quite simple really, just time and money.

 

[jordo]

You have to be kidding me, cane toads not a declared pest and legal to keep?

Cane toad (Primary Industries & Fisheries, Queensland)
Well according to Qld DPI, he's right... They are however a declared pest species in all other states.

As for the whole import/export discussion, well it was when it begun... Cane toads are irrelevant, they were introduced as a biological control for cane beetles, apparently after very minimal, if any, environmental impact assessment

JP2 - Agreed, poaching would go through the roof, demand would be endless in an international market.

Jamie, spot on about the DNA testing as far as I know. I think it's only really going to be possible/worth doing for species such as broad headeds and those with a small population where it's pretty easy to track lineage and get a more complete DNA database on the species.

 

[dpedwards08]

There has to be a way to have reptiles legally exported from Australia because I know of a person here in the United States that has had reptiles exported from Australia and then imported into the United States within the last several years. I've seen pictures and video footage of at least one of his Inland Taipans, Coastal Taipans, and Tiger Snakes if he has more than what was featured in pictures and videos.

Why don't the Australian reptile keepers/breeders come together to make a change in the legislation governing the exportation of Australian reptiles? All they would need to do is get together as a group and meet with the Australian Government Department of Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts and explain to them that there would be a tremendous profit to be earned by exporting captive bred and born reptiles all over the world. The United States would jump all over that opportunity and probably spend thousands if not millions of dollars on Australian reptiles. Reptile breeders could make a full time living by setting up reptile breeding and exporting facilities that specialize in a few different species of their specialization and over time there would be a large number of captive breeding operations that all bred different things all over Australia. That would make it fair to everybody with no monopoly since every one is breeding different species of their choice. Get together a portfolioto to present to the Department of Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts and really come up with good reasons as to why it would be beneficial and positive to do this.