Frillies dead at full term, any ideas???

[andyscott]

really sorry to hear u lost all those eggs/babies, thats such a shame.

just wondering if its possible to pip the ones that are due to hatch now like that albino carpet thread to ensure it doesnt happen to the remaining 6?

(not getting involvied in the incubation debate since i have absolutely no idea about it)

good luck with the remaining eggs.

Hi Chris, I dont feel there is a need to pip the 2nd clutch, as those eggs have had plenty of humidity from the start.

Also to all those that left comments without out getting into the debate, thank you for you wishes.

 

[GreggMadden]

At this time it is pointless to fight and point fingers... The issue got taken care of... Sure a clutch was lost but Andy, I am sure after reading the other replies you realize it most likely was not a container issue that cause your frills to die in the egg... I know you were upset about it and I would be as well, but there are many other variables that could have come into play here...

I know going forward, you are going to love the SIM container... It really is a great product and it make hatching eggs effortless... Even notoriously hard to hatch eggs have hatched in this container...

Do not loose faith in the product Andy... It will do good for you...

 

[wranga]

sorry for your loss andy
without taking sides and joining whos at fault. let this be a lesson to all to check all of your equipment (yes test run) before starting to incubate eggs. its alot easier to correct faults with temperature or humidity before eggs are added and spoiled

 

[Owzi]

Andy, using the no substrate meathod???

A couple of years ago you told me "you can't use the no substrate meathod in Melbourne, it's not humid enough in Victoria". ?????? I hatched BHP's & Spotteds later that year using that method, 100% success. Just because you have a large collection doesn't make you or anyone else an expert. We will all continue to learn from our herps for as long as we keep them.

Surely you can't blame a container for the eggs not hatching? Wouldn't you have had your incubator set up weeks in advance running tests on temp and humidity? If there was a problem you should have picked it up then?

It is a bummer you lost these hatchies, but its a learning experiance. If I were you I would learn that pipping the eggs may help, it certainly won't hurt?

Andrew

 

[Kristy_07]

Sorry for you loss, Andy. I would have been devastated, too.

I don't have the experience to add anything else that hasn't already been mentioned to the debate on what went wrong with the clutch. However, after reading this thread, I couldn't say I would be comfortable purchasing and using these particular tubs. Not so much because they sound unreliable or faulty, but more because of the way the problem was dealt with by the suppliers and distributors. Such an in-depth, and, at times, personal, discussion over problems with a product on a public forum is, in my opinion, totally unprofessional.

Once again, my apologies, Andy, that you lost your clutch. But thank you for posting this thread, as I, at least, have gained valuable information from it. I'll be sticking to ice cream buckets for my future breeding purposes.

 

[Owzi]

Sorry for you loss, Andy. I would have been devastated, too.

I don't have the experience to add anything else that hasn't already been mentioned to the debate on what went wrong with the clutch. However, after reading this thread, I couldn't say I would be comfortable purchasing and using these particular tubs. Not so much because they sound unreliable or faulty, but more because of the way the problem was dealt with by the suppliers and distributors. Such an in-depth, and, at times, personal, discussion over problems with a product on a public forum is, in my opinion, totally unprofessional.

Once again, my apologies, Andy, that you lost your clutch. But thank you for posting this thread, as I, at least, have gained valuable information from it. I'll be sticking to ice cream buckets for my future breeding purposes.

Wasn't it Andy that brought it to the public forum?

 

[cmclean]

Andy,
Everybody has had eggs die at full term, you can learn by your mistakes.
Get over it you big girl.

 

[Kristy_07]

You're right, Owzi. But Andy started the thread asking for advice, not condemning the tubs. Even when asked specifically whether she blamed the tubs, she answered diplomatically. It wasn't until I read carpetpythons.com first two comments, which were fairly direct to say the least, that my interest was peaked, and I decided to follow the thread.

 

[bkevo]

andy, sorry for the loss..
unfortunatly. if all that can be taken from your unpleasent experience, i and others can learn from your loss.
as andy has stated he will give them a go this season. with the problem being resolved, hopfully it will prove successful. best of luck mate

 

[andyscott]

Surely you can't blame a container for the eggs not hatching? Wouldn't you have had your incubator set up weeks in advance running tests on temp and humidity? If there was a problem you should have picked it up then?

It is a bummer you lost these hatchies, but its a learning experiance. If I were you I would learn that pipping the eggs may help, it certainly won't hurt?

Andrew

Yes Owzi,
I had everything set up ready to go a few weeks in advance.
Then I received the SIM tubs a couple of days before she layed, so I used them instead.

IF EVERYONE READS THE 1ST POST, I NEVER BLAMED THE TUBS,
The Australian supplier of the tubs jumped up in defence before anything bad was said on my behalf.
Why because she knew there was a small problem with some of the stock, she knew it was an easy fix and yet swept it under the carpet.
I say she knew, because she was informed by myself when I discovered the problem.

STUPIDLY I THOUGHT CUSTOMER FEEDBACK WOULD HELP HER WITH FUTURE CUSTOMER SERVICE AND SALES, I WAS WRONG, SHE BLAMED EVERYTHING ELSE BUT THE TUBS.
Gregg, I informed Nicole that there was a humidity problem in early December last year, did she let you know or sweep it under the carpet?


I have talked to 2 others that dont wish to be named on this thread, but they have also experience humidity problems.
Also if you check back over another thread about the tubs, you will find another that was having trouble.

I am in no way trying to loss sales for Gregg and Nicole, Im informing people that, If they choose to buy the item, make sure you refit the lid.
Even if it fits well, heat it up and refit it again!

 

[andyscott]

Andy,
Everybody has had eggs die at full term, you can learn by your mistakes.
Get over it you big girl.

LMFAO, BIG GIRL!!!!

That was a pathetic and childish comment on your behalf Cathy.
Comming from the wife of one of the most respected BHP breeders in Australia.

Please read everything I have stated, not just what you want to see.
Be constructive not childish.

 

[JasonL]

Not meaning to sound sarcastic here but anyone who doesn't know that reptiles (lizards in particular)
need calcium is pretty silly! I can say from personal knowledge that the parents in particular the mother
was definitely not lacking in calcium & every measure was taken before breeding even began.
Also we shall see what happens with this second clutch whether or not they hatch..

Without extensive blood tests and xrays before and during the gravid period you cannot say for sure if it's blood calcium levels were good.... but as you have a second clutch you have another chance to help with some clues, if they all hatch fine it was most likely a incubation issue, I'm guessing they will all be DIE (dead in egg) as thats what usually happens with nutrient deprived Frillies... hope it works out OK for you though, best of luck.

 

[Stevo2]

I would have thought, in my naivety, that if a female could produce enough calcium for 3 clutches of eggs then her calcium levels were fine??? Is this not the case?

 

[dtulip10]

ok so i just read the whole thread and now i am up to speed.

andy and kirsty sorry for your loss.
i feel it is not a incubation problem but like jason has said a lack of calcium. what was the mothers diet over the last 12 months.

with the SIM tubs, i have never used them, i was going to give them a go this year with some beardies and carpets and see how they go.

cheers Dayle

 

[JasonL]

I would have thought, in my naivety, that if a female could produce enough calcium for 3 clutches of eggs then her calcium levels were fine??? Is this not the case?

No not at all, captive females have little choice when placed in a enclosed space with a male, esp with frillies as males have been known to kill non responsive females out of shear persistance ( I can unfortunately personally attest to that) as they have large fangs that are good for grasping, tearing, ripping the necks of females open..
anyway... most reptiles will copulate and produce eggs even in a sub average state. Some reptiles (like Bearded Dragons) put everything into their eggs and have a really high hatch rate, even when the female is near death and the egg shell is half clear with "windows" (they are clear spots caused by mineral deficiencies) and the hatchies come out fine, other reptiles keep themselves healthy and lay eggs that will never hatch. Calcium and heating issues are very complex, and there are many unknown areas and grey areas, and every situation can be different. If you breed hundreds of lizards and snakes of 30 - 50 species you will start to work out various patterns, these patterns can be highly variable depending on numerous reasons, though imo mainly come down to a heating / feeding balance. Not only does it effect egg laying reptiles either, live bearers also have problems, skinks are often born with a 90 deg right angle kink in their tails, or still birthed. Though there are many reasons for various birth / hatch failures in herpetoculture, I put heating down as the main one.

 

[andyscott]

Ok, Stevo2 and dtulip 10 and Jas.

The female is in great condition, I could have bred with her in 2008 but chose to wait another year.

Her diet is calcium dusted woodies or crickets every 2nd day.
She also gets 2 pinky mice a week, as well as banana, apple, flowers ect.

Her health and diet is spot on.

 

[Stevo2]

That's what I would have thought Andy

Wish I could get mine to eat non-living things..... You're doing great!

 

[JasonL]

Ok, Stevo2 and dtulip 10 and Jas.

The female is in great condition, I could have bred with her in 2008 but chose to wait another year.

Her diet is calcium dusted woodies or crickets every 2nd day.
She also gets 2 pinky mice a week, as well as banana, apple, flowers ect.

Her health and diet is spot on.

As I said, diet and looks have nothing to do with it at all. It is extremely common for frillies to do this and I highly doubt it has anything to do with incubation at all, Good eggs hatch in almost any conditions and bad eggs will not hatch under any conditions....

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

This is how my dealings have gone down with Gregg and John in America. Even before you lot knew about these tubs I had 20 sent to me at a phenomenal amount of money. I ordered them in for my own animals as I did not want to risk others hatchlings with a product that has not been tested. I hatched close to 200 pythons in these tubs. Most of them were high end snakes and I also hatched a few clutches of bearded dragon eggs. Now I have posted pictures of these tubs in action in my incubators. I then decided to sign up for the rights of distribution in australia. The boys can vouch for that.

Andy ordered ten, they were sent of after payment was received. Then I heard nothing again until a few months ago when he did posted a thread on this forum about the product and these lizard eggs not doing well. I added to the thread and ended off by asking him to show me his setup along with readings from his hygrometer. He never bothered responding and if any of you would like to do a search I am sure you will find it.

Another buyer followed the correct protocol and contacted me directly to ask about his lid and I mentioned to him to run it under hot water for a little while to sort out the problem. He contacted me back and said it fits like a glove after that. These lids are not supposed to fit like a Tupperware lid and I never had issues with the first bunch I got. They are not like any tub out there and customers that have them can attest to that.

I might be wrong when I say that if you have issues with something you buy then your first point of contact is the supplier. You don't post it on a forum! Where you can post something under the guise of innosence when your full intentions was to hurt the reputation of the seller and the product. I will defend this product as I have had absolutely no issues with it. If there are others that had issues then why don't they raise their voice and not hide behind you. Nothing was swept under the carpet as I in all honestly have only had one complaint. I dealt with it promptly and sorted it out like any supplier would if you follow the right channel. It was very unprofessional of you from the start to have posted 2 threads on a forum without bothering to contact us first. Any supplier would get upset if this is the manner you conduct your affairs in. You have cost me buyers by doing this even if you had the best intentions at heart. Customer feedback is not done on a public forum.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Just read through the whole thread again. A repta-incubator from Reptapets is a hovabator. You have in fact used a chicken egg incubator. Why don't you touch or try and touch the heating element while it is heating. I bet you that you will burn your hand. I used some of those incubators on beardie eggs and have stopped because of the temperature spikes that happen in them, especially in Melbourne.