How important are UV lights

[JasonL]

none of my dragons or frogs get UV, if you feed them correctly and understand their heat requirements, they have no problems. I've kept frogs for 20 years without it, and kept large no's of dragons for the last 5 years without it.

 

[B-Rock]

I used to spend a fortune on Reptigrow flouro lites only to have the pythons in their hides all day . Now its normal flouro days and uv blacklites at nite . They seem to like the " moonlite " effect and the day lites are cheap heat source .

Nice point. I have often thought about that. Might do that when this flouro is due for replacement.

 

[Yann]

Hi all...
Regarding UV, as it was said, snakes do not need UVb as they get their VitD3 from their food (like most carnivorous species). UVa could be needed to stimulate breeding.
My MD gets low UVa from her basking lamp (Exo-Terra SunGlo Tight Beam) and she gets to stay in the sun on the balcony a few times a week and most of the weekends weather permitting. As it was said, they DO bask in the sun in the wild, so exposition to UV cannot hurt but isn't necessary as long as you feed your snakes with good quality food...

Regarding temperature, Hix is 200% right... Your snakes need to regulate their temperature, even if they are NT species... Ventilation is an important point as it will help creating a gradient in the enclosure... What you can do on very hot days is freeze a (plastic) bottle of water and leave it in the cool end of your enclosure, it will drop the temperature in this area... Your snakes can even coil around the bottle if they are very hot...!

I hope this helps, and please correct me if I said anything wrong as it is what I believe to be good for my snake...
Thank you.
Yann.

 

[oxyranus]

i just take my costal out in the sun a few times a week.

 

[oxyranus]

i just take my costal out for a bit of sun a few times a week

 

[oxyranus]

whoops accidently posted twice.

 

[Retic]

Yes, if you take dragons out of the equation you are left with monitors, geckoes and skinks so yes most lizards don't need it. Also there are quite a few people who breed nice healthy dragons with no natural or artificial UV.

most lizards dont need it?
without it in practically ALL dragon species growth rate life span and development rate are all severly effected, also with tree frogs, its been proven to reduce growth deforematies too. but as for snakes, i have to agree that they dont need it.

 

[craig.a.c]

I don't waste my money on UV lights. My snakes get taken outside for an hour a week, depending on the weather. This way they get UV and some exercise at the same time. Good for photo shoots also.

 

[-Peter]

But I will

Great thing about Jason is he is an expert on the UV requirements of every reptile and amphibian kept here in Australia or did I misread your post on the subject last time.
Obviously bearded dragons dont require it do they Jason or would you be willing to concede that one.
UV Lights though are another matter.

 

[JasonL]

I currently keep 15 Inland bearded dragons, some of which are 5 years of age, none have ever seen a uv light or the sun, except for photo taking, all bar 3 where raised by me from hatchlings, two from yearling, one was bought as a adult, I have raised another half dozen the same way (which were sold as they were either male or more recently I moved some 4 year old females as they were not coloured). Over the last two years I have bred around 500 hatchlings without any signs of problems, this coming year I will be breeding second gen. UV free dragons, I will also start raising a seperate colony outdoors to compare the the two groups.
I also have kept Chlamydosaurus kingii, Ctenophorus cristatus, and Rankinia diemensis without UV and currently 24 other Sp of reptile and amphibian, consisting of over 100 animals all without UV.

 

[-Peter]

interested to see what you 2nd gen turn out like. Im always willing to accept the truth but anecdotal evidence doesnt cut it. Do the leg work and prove it.
Until then I think you are stretching the truth, that your animals have high osteoporosity and do not enjoy the longevity and or health that other animals with UV enjoy.
I note that you say have kept. That doesnt really qualify anything does it?

 

[sparticus]

some of the animals I have got from jason over the past few years have been of the best quality I have ever seen and kept...

 

[Aslan]

interested to see what you 2nd gen turn out like. Im always willing to accept the truth but anecdotal evidence doesnt cut it. Do the leg work and prove it.
Until then I think you are stretching the truth, that your animals have high osteoporosity and do not enjoy the longevity and or health that other animals with UV enjoy.
I note that you say have kept. That doesnt really qualify anything does it?

You demand scientific evidence to the effect that Jason CAN keep his animals with NO UV yet you seem to consider the "liar, liar pants on fire" argument as proof that it CAN'T - interesting...

 

[JasonL]

interested to see what you 2nd gen turn out like. Im always willing to accept the truth but anecdotal evidence doesnt cut it. Do the leg work and prove it.
Until then I think you are stretching the truth, that your animals have high osteoporosity and do not enjoy the longevity and or health that other animals with UV enjoy.
I note that you say have kept. That doesnt really qualify anything does it?

I still currently keep Rankinia diemensis, the other 2 dragons sp. I kept for around 2 years each. "doesn't count" well that depends on how you think, I added these as a few years ago I was speaking to Peter Harlow, who said he thought dragons would die within 3 months without it. As far as "anectodal", well I'm a sceptical person who is always going to test the boundries, Once was a time when the earth was flat.

 

[-Peter]

Yes Aslan, I require proof, you obviously do not. Good for you. I hope the tooth fairy is good to you.
Jason, I will fully accept your claims on the production of evidence and not anecdotal feedback.
I have seen the results of no UV.
You do not state how you overcome calcium deficiencies, bone porosity and malformation.
Put your case but support it with proveable fact.
i will concede that the requirement ov UV is overstated and that quite a number of reptiles require little if any at all is needed but to claim outright that none do and that your animals are as healthy as they could possibly be without it is plain and simple bunkum unless supported by proof.

Only some of the animals Sparticus, I presume you meant to write all didnt you?

 

[JasonL]

You see the results of no UV or you see metabolic bone desease? As I've seen that in all catagories of reptiles we have here in Autralia, mostly caused by a incorrect food / heat ratio. Diamond Pythons are the classic example. Over heated in most collections. I believe someone has finished or soon to be finished thesis proving they don't need UV, one of Glenn Shea's student's. I let my success as a breeder / keeper be my proof. Feel free to give me a call if you wish, come over, I'll show you them all first hand, I'll even give you a almost unlimited supply of hatchies free, if you want to write a paper, but to me, papers are a interesting read, something to think about, but that's about it. I'm more interested in the hands on experience of the person that wrote it.

 

[JasonL]

last year this and the other loder girl, did three clutches each, 27 - 36 eggs per cluch, 19 - 28 days apart, that's without UV or cal powder, Amazing? I don't think so.

 

[Tristis]

lets not for get about turtles.
uv is a waste of money

 

[Bert]

I require proof.
and not anecdotal feedback.

I have seen the results of no UV.

Peter, funny what is said and meant. I have only taken a few parts of your post but the last bit looks anecdotal to me as you didn't notate where it was published. But it could be true and you also haven't noted whether you eliminated all other possible deficiancies that could have caused what you saw in the unnamed subject.
There is a fine line between the observations people make and recorded data that has been published and publishing data doesn't make it correct as it is the information that is ignored while collecting the data that can make or break a hypothesis.

 

[Chimera]

But it could be true and you also haven't noted whether you eliminated all other possible deficiancies that could have caused what you saw in the unnamed subject.

What?? You mean we have to consider other things as well when keeping reptiles

This seems to be a common issue whenever the topic of reptile husbandry comes up. People will make sweeping statements about the methods they employ and the fact that they've "never had a problem". Unfortunately they will not mention (intentionally or unintentionally) some of the key assumptions or environmental factors that underpin the technique they employ. People then take the advice and are missing these factors and run into problems in the long run. Perhaps this is why issues such as UV are so contentious.

The fact is UV lights are not that expensive (referring to NEC T10 blacklight) and if these are used in a sensible manner will not cause any harm. It has been proven that animals can be raised without UV (many breeders will attest to this), the statement that UV provides no benefit has not been conclusively proven. UVB has been proven to promote vitamin D3 synthesis from the pre-D3 enzyme in the skin. This in turn improves calcium absorption and therefore bone strength. UVA in reptiles isn't as well studied however it has been linked to psychological well being and appetite. With proper diet it is possible for reptiles to get their D3 intake from the food they eat rather then this process. Supplements are exactly that, they should supplement, not replace a correct diet. If you feel that there is benefit to UV then stick to your convictions and put it into your enclosure, if you feel there is no benefit then don't. When making this decision think for yourself about what you are doing and research the implications rather then relying on unpublished (and occasionally anecdotal) evidence. Just don't think that this is going to be the silver bullet to husbandry questions as there are far more important aspects to reptile husbandry that should be maintained.

Mods, I think we need a sticky on UV lighting explaining the basic aspects of the possible influences it has on reptile keeping.