Jag/Albino carry-on

[paul4]

MATE!!! Thet are bloody gorgeous looking animals
I am excited to see something like that being bred here in Aus.
Sign me up for a pair of the offspring if they are availaable any day of the week mate
Looking forward to seeing some of the offspring pics
Paul

 

[wokka]

I agree, like I said they are technically illegal as they would be the offspring of illegal animals. Of course they are no different to the overwhelming majority of GTP's here and no-one seems to lose much sleep over them.

What about the progeny of all the locality animals which continue to emerge.The parents of locality animals, by definition, have been taken from the wild. Whilst there is a chance that the animals were obtained under licence it is more likely they were stolen ( or poached to use a more acceptable term) from the wild. Are you suggesting thaty the progeny of those illegallytaken parents are also illegal??

 

[Retic]

Again, technically, yes of course they are.

 

[wokka]

Again, technically, yes of course they are.

Lets start dealing with reality; so they are not. If an animal is on licence it is legal . Its linage is not relevant to wether it is legal or not at least not in NSW. You can only ask and believe the seller as to wether the animal is legal. The average mum and dad has no way of confirming that let alone the linage of the animal. Being technically correct only worries people unecessarily.

 

[junglepython2]

Great to see so much support for smuggling....

 

[Ramsayi]

Why compare poached animals to animals that were smuggled in from OS? Two totally different things.

Exotic diseases should be a major concern for anyone wanting to dabble in smuggled animals and the people that do show a complete disregard for our native animals.I guess it all about lining ones pockets these days.

 

[wokka]

Why compare poached animals to animals that were smuggled in from OS? Two totally different things.

.

From a legal point of view they are no different. They are both obtained illegally.
I agree that smuggling does have a far greater risk from a health point of view but that is not what i was commenting on. I am pointing out the holier than thou attitute of the many keepers who openly claim to have locality animals from illegally poached animals.

 

[wokka]

Great to see so much support for smuggling....

Where is there support for smuggling?

 

[Scleropages]

Why is it "true" jags always look like they have a jungle's head shape?

 

[junglepython2]

Where is there support for smuggling?

Unless importation is legalised, anyone supporting Jags in Aus is supporting smuggling, whether directly or not. If there wasn't the market they wouldn't be smuggled.

 

[wokka]

Unless importation is legalised, anyone supporting Jags in Aus is supporting smuggling, whether directly or not. If there wasn't the market they wouldn't be smuggled.

Agreed; but as far as I am aware Jags are here in significant numbers as are their progeny so you are fighting an unwinnable battle. I dont know if all Jags must have originated from overseas, although if I believe everything I read on the forums that would seem to be the case. It does seem strange that genetics from Australia go overseas and breed to produce Jags, but it is apparently not possible for those same Australian genetics to breed Jags in Australia.

 

[hardcorey007]

Thanks for posting the pics. There are amazing looking snakes.

 

[Jason]

Unless importation is legalised, anyone supporting Jags in Aus is supporting smuggling, whether directly or not. If there wasn't the market they wouldn't be smuggled.

same should be said for anyone buying non native greens then.....

either way jags are here to stay and they will DEFINATELY become a MAJOR part of the hobby in the very near future, they will be crossed etc and i hope people sell them for what they are (which im very sure they will). if i breed them then i do agree that the sibs should be frozen otherwise just more crossed mungrels entering the hobby. jungle jags are still imo the best looking carpets around!

 

[ihaveherps]

It does seem strange that genetics from Australia go overseas and breed to produce Jags, but it is apparently not possible for those same Australian genetics to breed Jags in Australia.

Not strange at all..... the creation of the founder Jag had sweet stuff all with inheritable genetics from its parents and everything to do with a spontaneous mutation....

Wokka, to think that NPWS wouldnt act when the Jags surface is a toss of a coin.... the sheer odds against the exact spontaneous mutation happening again here is astronomical, so it could be assumed that they are from imported stock, and a paper chase could easily begin... someone would have to get caught out, and entire collections go under the microscope. If they dont act, they are almost condoning smuggling, and forgery of books.... I personally expect them to pick out someone and make an example of them.

 

[wokka]

Not strange at all..... the creation of the founder Jag had sweet stuff all with inheritable genetics from its parents and everything to do with a spontaneous mutation....

Whats that mean?

 

[ihaveherps]

I dont really know how to put it simply..... umm.... sort of like Downes Syndrome for ease.... neither parent actually carries the gene, though in early embrionic development even fertilisation an error occurs, and in downes syndrome if I remember correctly the thirteenth allele is affected, there is either an extra copy of the 13th allele or one is missing ( so either 3 copies or one copy instead of the normal two.... sorry for not being positive, though I couldnt be asked to varify for the sake of an example). Anyway, its not a condition that the parents carry, just a freak occurance during development. Now I bet that in your head your ticking over that there are alot of people with Downes Syndrome out there.... its an example, and by no means a perfect one.

 

[wokka]

I dont really know how to put it simply..... umm.... sort of like Downes Syndrome for ease.... neither parent actually carries the gene, though in early embrionic development even fertilisation an error occurs, and in downes syndrome if I remember correctly the thirteenth allele is affected, there is either an extra copy of the 13th allele or one is missing ( so either 3 copies or one copy instead of the normal two.... sorry for not being positive, though I couldnt be asked to varify for the sake of an example). Anyway, its not a condition that the parents carry, just a freak occurance during development. Now I bet that in your head your ticking over that there are alot of people with Downes Syndrome out there.... its an example, and by no means a perfect one.

So its a random event that may occur next mating or not for another million matings?

 

[junglepython2]

Down's syndrome is a duplication of the 21st chromosone which can occur readily during meiosis. That's why there are plenty of people with Down's syndrome.

The Jag mutation isn't of this type and chance of it spontaneously occuring identically twice are astronomical. And as Ihaveherps said it would have bugger all to do with the parents genetics.

 

[wokka]

Wokka, to think that NPWS wouldnt act when the Jags surface is a toss of a coin.... the sheer odds against the exact spontaneous mutation happening again here is astronomical, so it could be assumed that they are from imported stock, and a paper chase could easily begin... someone would have to get caught out, and entire collections go under the microscope. If they dont act, they are almost condoning smuggling, and forgery of books.... I personally expect them to pick out someone and make an example of them.

I have heard it said by NPWS staff that one of their principle tasks of legislation is to prevent unauthorised removal of reptiles from the wild. With this in mind I think it far more likely they would target new localities emerging from NSW. Smuggling is more the domaun of the federal police. I dont see either of them as the enemy and doubt that they would want to make an example of someone who accidently ends up with overseas bloodlines. I am not sure that ,even if it could be proven that legally obtained progeny came from smuggled parents, that having those progeny would be an offense. What good would shutting the gate after the horse has bolted be. It would mearly drive it underground.
Just for the record, and to save any futher pms from the closet readers, I dont have any jags. I am mearly playing devils advocate.

 

[Gnome73]

ok .. regards jags pails 4 scales has got some "Cardwel Jungles" at the moment that look jagish to me what do peaple think of them?????