ls "cheap" cheap l don't think so

[solar 17]

A lot of the time these days you will see reptiles and a lot of other "kept" animals being marketed as "cheap" for sale.
ln reality are these reptiles cheap?
let's take jungles or bredlis for instance and you buy an animal that is of low colour quality and that doesn't mean to say its not healthy or that you don't passionately care for that animal.
But after a couple of clutches and somewhere between 15-60 babies/hatchies that you now have and are hard to shift/sell and to be kept in premium conditions what with heating and feeding was that initial purchase such a bargain?
Because if you add those somewhere between $50-200 dollars to your original purchase[for a quality reptile] and divide it by you 15-60 offspring which you sell a lot easier as they themselves have great genetics.
To me the premium priced quality animal is not looking that exspensive any more and as a fair few seem to be doing these days is "selling up" you are still going to find it easier to off-load your "quality" animals.
Lets face it to keep reptiles in great condition isn't cheap anymore and l don't mind saying right here right now l am over excuses like l am a student or l had to buy a new phone or it cost too much imo you entered a contract, toughen up and see it through and keep those reptiles how they should be kept and once again l personally believe had you bought quality in the 1st. place it may well have been easier all around.....solar 17 [Baden]

 

[mje772003]

Baden, are you referring to the newsletter that snake ranch sent out?

Cheers Matt

 

[solar 17]

Baden, are you referring to the newsletter that snake ranch sent out?

Cheers Matt

100% no ......solar 17 [Baden]

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

You are sounding very philosophical lately Baden?

 

[benjamind2010]

Baden has absolutely NAILED it!

I've said this myself many times before, that if I was going to get something it had better be of exceptional quality, or I wouldn't bother at all. And now, this is my motto:

If it hasn't got the honey it hasn't got my money.

 

[slide]

too true Baden, its fine for those who just want one or two animals and appreciate them as a species in their living room- great they got a 'bargain' price for a run of the mill animal.
But for those who want their animals to reproduce, what is the point in paying all those running costs to produce sub standard animals at a low selling price- after all the running costs (which could last 20 odd years) are exactly the same regardless of the purchase price of the animal. The other thing that I pesonally believe is that people should consider whether they are breeding to add something to the species/hobby or just to do it for the sake of it??? By the time the animal has reached maturity the total cost of purchasing and maintaining the animal will only be maginally different but the quality of offspring will be like chalk and cheese, as will the selling price(for those conserned with the returns)

 

[wokka]

There are all sort of sectors in the market. Unfortunately more and more buyers seem to be only concerned about price but there are still poeple out there with ethics.
There is a cost required to cover the cost of ethical production. To sell product below that cost means corners are cut in the production process and it becomes unsustainable.
Over easter the media touched upon ethical chocalate. Would you rather pay the lowest price you can find or pay a fair price to allow everyone along the way to have a reasonable feed?

 

[beeman]

Very well put Baden!
Its unfortunate that the new wave of keepers think that cheap is good, but as novices cheap can bring them undone quite quickly as they dont allow enough to keep the critter the way it should be kept!

 

[fugawi]

Where is the relationship between price and quality? What is a sub standard animal, colour, markings, lineage? Sounding very elitist to me, only an expensive pet is a good pet?

 

[wranga]

everything is about cheap now. we import automotive equipment from italy. we now have our customers compairing our machines against cheaper machines from china and other parts of asia. they may look similar, but the quality is very different. it seems tobe price in alot of cases that gets a sale now. sad but thats how it is..
so if its cheap dose that mean it wont be looked after properly? i think thats wrong to suggest that. some people wouldnt look after anything no matter how much they paid.

 

[Emilie]

When ever I buy a PET, I look for qualities like temperament and yes, not a sky-high price. Off course, we may never have any offspring to sell off, thats NOT why I keep reptiles.

 

[jham66]

I'm a newbie breeder, this is the first clutch I have bred. I totally get where you are coming from. You hear of quite a few dodgy dealings of cheap snakes. Ones that as 2 month old hatchies are still being kept all together in the one container (how can you possibly tell each has fed three times??). Then the person will get them home and find that they have mites or other health issues. My first clutch have been kept in a hygienic environment and checked on nightly. I have full records of feeds in a field sheet that stays beside my hatchy rack. I regularly transfer from this field sheet to a file on the computer. I will then print this record off for each new owner. The computer file also includes a photo of each post feed lump and found shed. My snakes have been separated since they emerged from the egg. All this extra work means for each snake I can tell you exactly when they have shed and fed. I think this extra care should come at a (reasonable) cost. It should also be an assurance to the purchaser that all proper care has been taken.

Fugawi, you wouldn't want to pay a premium for a car that has mismatched/faded paint. You will pay extra for a car in the colour you want... a car with records of servicing is also worth more.... It isn't elitist just paying what it is worth. You see the same thing in all animals. An example of an animal conforming to the breed standard or having an unusual but appealing colour or trait will always (and should always) be more valuable. With snakes the difference between "cheap" and "expensive" can be $50-$100 for the regular varieties. If you add up the time taken to go the extra mile you would find that it comes at little financial reward per hour to the breeder.

 

[ad]

hehe I had a guy wanting a Julatten, I still have one that I was keeping but I said, wait til it sheds, and I will send you pics,
He couldnt wait 2 days and bought one elsewhere, thing is....
This snake is one of the best Julattens you will lay eyes on, and he didnt even see it, he just wanted one so quick that he had to have it NOW.
For a pet that lives for 20years, spend a bit of time finding a nice one You will be happier in 3 years time.
Cheers
Adam

 

[slide]

Feel free to call me elitist- I dont think that ugly or stupid people should breed either, but they do, you just cant stop them :lol: wait, maybe thats why I dont have kids??? Am I one of them??? :?

 

[Benjamin_john]

I agree %100, but on the other hand I breed normal coastal carpets and always will, out of a clutch I will get %50 normal's with age become a beautiful black and white spotted pattern and %50 striped, I don't breed them for the money but I also won't sell them under a cut price or cheep banner. I think that coastal carpets are fantastic first snakes, if you are after a larger python, and there temperament and hardiness is second to none in the reptile world.

 

[TeamCahill]

Fantastic thread - thankyou. For a 1st time breeder, I have to admit that we priced our beardies cheaply. But there were a number of factors taken in to consideration with this:

1. Did I mention the 1st time breeders? In fact we didn't even realise that we had a breeding pair until she was gravid last year.
2. Our set up in comparison to jham66 - WOW!! Seriously, wow!! If we do continue this breeding thing in our family, I think the responsible thing will be to practice your technique. Yes, we had separated our hatchlings and juvies as they grew. I was also the one in the family ensuring that they all fed, habitat cleaned and each individually checked for marks, nibbles, etc, every day. But I never thought to put it into as much detail as you did. That sort of extra work deserves recognition. We didn't do that - ergo, cheaper price.
3. We live in an apartment, so we do not have the luxury of space for a few hatchlings.

However, in all things considered, we still preferred our sales to be "on-sight" and have been lucky enough that every single sale has been a serious, devotee to the upkeep of the reptiles. Even a converted newbie - she made the extra effort pay us up front (including extra for maintenance), while she went away and applied for the licence, set up the habitat and researched how to care for them through the zoo and Herp Society.

Price shouldn't be a factor, but the reality of life is that cost is impossible to avoid. Seasons change as well - what was $80 last year can be found for $25 this year. The good news is that we as the vendors will always have the last say. If you don't feel comfortable with the price, or the transaction, don't.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Does the breeders "Solid reputation plus Expertise" have anything to do with the end price.,

eg. like knowing which animals to pair up for the best possible desired outcome. ???

Not just sticking a boy girl in together and hoping you get eggs that hatch

"Oils ain't Oils"

 

[fugawi]

So on your logic, a GTP is worth $2500 because more work has gone into breeding it than a MD worth $100? Price is set by the market....NOT quality. I got a Central Beardie from Fay and Ray, for free, due to the fact it was missing a foot. Does that mean Fay and Ray are breeding "sub-standard" or unhealthy animals. Aside from the missing foot, he is healthy in every way, has great colour, feeds well (Too well), has a great personality and could have nice offspring. If I had have paid $500 for him would he have been better........NO.

 

[Recharge]

you guys can complain all you like, but it won't help you, this is a free market at work, some want quality, some want cheap, and nothing you do or say will change their minds on what they want.

within a market, you have to compete, if things aren't working for you, either improve your model, or get out of the market, it's a s simple as that.
within Australia, the snake market is enclosed and has been small for many years, making it more viable until now, far more people are into snakes now, so the market diversifies, with more breeders and more market pressures.

so, it's not making you several thousand dollars a year any more? well, poo happens I'm afraid, you either adapt or move on, because this is how it is now.
as for "quality" and such.. well, thats all down to personal views, pattern, colour etc etc.. meh, if that phases people, good luck to them, but for most (at least until they're a few years into reptiles) who breeds what and such means nothing, they like what they like when they see it.

 

[AirCooled]

I think the reptile industry is very hard to class.Any 1/2 smart teenager with little money can suddenly become a breeder to some.The housing & car industries relies on so many variables in pricing.From stock market to what the last 10 people paid for similar items,etc,but their is still a base for this pricing in most cases.
If there was some way to undisputedly classify,in this case snakes,this could a justification for pricing for all.Eg;Breed--Pet class,breeder class and high end class ranges.Then sub-classes from them,with the 101 differences,
We all trust that when we buy from breeders that we a getting quality reptile,but we take this on the word of, in most cases, virtual strangers.What 110% guarantee or assurance is there.Pricing on the individual reptile is only a percentage of the overall cost of the hobby,passion,lifestyle,etc. jham66 would obviously give you many reasons to buy from him,as would many other breeders.But how does the newbie(not referring myself) not buy from the wrong person or pay the wrong price?