ls "cheap" cheap l don't think so

[Jason]

there is also many people commanding high prices for below average animals. some people dont view keeping herps as a business or production line that must be maintained with out loss. i honestly couldnt care if i sell things for less than what i paid or 'market value' or even cheaper than worse looking animals. cheap animals DO NOT always mean 'cheap' animals! It can and often does just mean the person selling the animal just doesn't need top dollar because thats not a concern to them. who cares if someone sells an animal with cheap on the end? really it seems like alot of the people that 'aren't in it for the money' seem very concerned about cheaper animals and a drop in prices... rather ironic.
simply put there are to many animals being produced each year and prices on the average normal stuff will continue to drop lower. If you aren't worried about the money side of things than price drops should hardly be discussed, unless a concern is to brake even in which case money is an agenda.

 

[jham66]

No, a GTP is worth more money because it is a more desirable snake. They are more difficult to keep and breed successfully as well. MD are very common and many people breed them, if you were to breed a MD with a new desirable colour or trait it would be more valuable because it would stand out from the crowd of "normals"........ as a pet it would make no difference.

TeamCahill, my set-up is nothing extraordinary, just 21 tubs on a couple of shelves with a heat cord, but I do take pride in my record keeping!

ShaunB, ask questions and do research..... When you go to pick up a snake there is nothing stopping you from walking away if something doesn't seem right. In any advertisement I place there is nothing really that sets me aside from other sellers, in fact many may do the same thing.....

 

[fugawi]

Jags have the possibility of having neurological problems but still command a much higher price than a Coastal that, odds are, will be perfectly healthy, no matter the pattern or colour. Jags have a higher price but not necessarily higher health or quality. At the Easter show recently, I noticed a lot of people signing up for licenses. These people won't know or care if it has good colouration, breeding, lineage etc, they just want a cool pet at a cheap price. All you elite specialty breeders, what do you do with the other half (standard, boring colour) of your clutch? Euthanise them or sell them cheap to give you more room?

 

[slide]

So on your logic, a GTP is worth $2500 because more work has gone into breeding it than a MD worth $100? Price is set by the market....NOT quality. I got a Central Beardie from Fay and Ray, for free, due to the fact it was missing a foot. Does that mean Fay and Ray are breeding "sub-standard" or unhealthy animals. Aside from the missing foot, he is healthy in every way, has great colour, feeds well (Too well), has a great personality and could have nice offspring. If I had have paid $500 for him would he have been better........NO.

to take it back to Baden's original post he was comparing the cost Vs quality of animals of the same species and how the costs when spread out over the long term are nearly the same but you still end up with either a higher or lower quality looking animal (that Im sure will be loved equally). He was not comparing apples to oranges.

Great to see that the Beardie wasn't euthanised and found a loving home. But if you had paid $500 for him he wouldn't be any better or worse, you just would have been ripped.

 

[fugawi]

RSPs originally were at $15000 a pair but with each breeding season, more became available, so therefore the price has come down. It would only take 1 GTP breeder to sell their clutches at $150 each to change the market. jham66... for $300 you could pick up a pair and breed them. Your overheads are $300 + your time. To break even you wouldn't need to charge $2500, you could probably charge around the same $150. The point is price = availability not quality. It is very hard to make a profit from breeding at the best of times, if this is the case you would have to sell a beardie for $1000. Unfortunately the $1000 beardie would be the same quality as the $50 one. The only difference is you won't sell any and the $50 ones will go like hotcakes.

Slide...my exact point.......Paying $500= being ripped off ......NOT better quality.

 

[longqi]

I have been owned by more than a few snakes
Except for right at the start and a few rescues every single one has been chosen for temperament

Realistically how many people are going to become full time breeders
A few years ago it was very financially rewarding
But now the price of reptiles is more governed by the buyers
Only exceptional animals still command the figures of less than 5 years ago
So the majority of buyers now are looking for either a showpiece or a pet
[preferably both if they can find one]

An absolutely beautiful reptile that just wants to bite my face off is not of that much interest to me
I would much prefer one of any degree of ugliness that just curls up in my lap while Im having a beer

This is an aspect which is usually overlooked
But if we want a pet rather than a showpiece???

Otherwise we would all buy Jags???

 

[wranga]

another thread hijacked by the jag bashers

 

[fugawi]

I get the idea that the original post is saying, An MDs average price is $150, If I sell them at $300 then therefore mine are better than somebody selling them at $50. This assumes that an expensive price= high quality. I have seen "cheap" snakes of higher or equal quality as expensive snakes, the price does not necessarily equal the quality.

 

[longqi]

Wranga
My post had absolutely zero do do with Jag bashing
Everyone with half a brain fully accepts that the best Jags look better than 99.9% of other various types of Carpets
That is the only reason I included them and if snakes were ONLY chosen for looks Jags would be on everyones wish list

Fugawi in his last post has a much better grip on the reality of the situation

 

[wranga]

longqi
i didnt address my post to you personally, or anyone else

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

I am glad that I make enclosures rather than breed snakes...there is a lot of competition out there and first timers can get straight in there and compete with the experienced breeders by using the information that the older crew have worked a long time to figure out. We only provide high end specialised enclosures that are difficult to make. I have worked long and hard to better our methods to make them as cost efficient as can be, making us very competitive. So I feel for those experienced breeders that need to justify why their animals are worth more than some overnight breeder. Problem is a lot of the customers are just as inexperienced and wouldn't recognise this.

 

[AirCooled]

90% of the time,choice of breed/sub-breed is a personal thing,everyone has their own reasons for why one is better,.Pricing should be on realistic values not personal.I bought a $5,000 puppy for $3,000,I was happy to pay the 3 because of the saving and the proof of breeding.

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

Wranga
My post had absolutely zero do do with Jag bashing
Everyone with half a brain fully accepts that the best Jags look better than 99.9% of other various types of Carpets
That is the only reason I included them and if snakes were ONLY chosen for looks Jags would be on everyones wish list

Fugawi in his last post has a much better grip on the reality of the situation

and yes Jags are on my wish list but I will do more research first.

 

[Chris1]

well, what about those of us who were happy to pay top dollar for top animals, to later realise that the breeder knowingly offloaded crud?

i never went for 'cheap', ive tried offering more to get the better animals, just incase i decided to try breeding sometime int he future, and now have a house full of snakes that i wont sell since theyre pets, but none of which are worth the trouble of breeding.
(particularly peeved at the hypo bredli that were meant to be crackers and are totally classic,..., i guess that explains the not feeding them much before shipping so they dont start showing their crap colours till its too late)

its really off putting buying anything now since i know breeders keep the best for themselves and their mates and off load the rest to the whoevers like me!!

 

[Red-Ink]

$50 specimen Vs $500 specimen..... quality = subjective.

Do I want to pay just the $50 well only a fool will say no, does the $50 dollar one have what I'm looking for "quality wise" probably not. If it did I scoop it up in a second as well as probably two or three more in that clutch.

Now the $500 specimen has what I'm looking for and fits the bill of what I consider to be a "quality" specimen (subjectively obcourse), am I a fool for paying that top dollar when the majority of people think that's an exorbedant price? Well I think not as I was obviously willing to pay for it and I will take the moral high ground of "it's mine not yours.. bugger what you think".

If somebody is willing to pay the price the breeder is asking whatever that price may be how are they getting ripped off? They agreed to that price. The only way it would be a rip is if you didn't get what you paid for i.e pay for a GTP and get sent a GTS, then it's a rip.

I have posted this before:
"Quantity will drive the price down...
Quality will command a higher price..."

Up to you what you consider quality whether your well informed about reptiles or not

 

[cwtiger]

very interesting thread. I have also got my first clutch after looking after snakes for many years. I did not breed to make money nor for the sake of it. When my hatchlings hatched they were all seperated. Records of each shed time they fed pooped have been kept. I am selling them for a low price so that others can enjoy to say that my adults are not up to the standards nor the babies is beyond words. I paid high end for the adults when I purchased them. So just because someone is selling their hatchlings for a low price I don't think means that they are not looking after the hatchlings properly nor do I think it means that they are sick or covered in mites.

 

[cougars]

Ive sold plenty of (cheap) hatchies this year,All healthy snakes and eating just fine.After every sale I have received positive feedback as to the look,condition and ease of handling.Most people are happy with a healthy snake true to its type without it having to be (special). All my reptiles are maintained in a clean healthy environment without any corners being cut and housed ethically.Ive lost some money but its only a hobby to me.The price of reptiles has come down and people have to adjust.Cheap is not always a bad thing.

 

[D3pro]

This feels like a high school business class topic... "What effects a products price?"
Since were talking about money, here is a simple answer:

There are various factors that effect appropriate price for a product. Competition, product image, product quality, demand for the product, expenses and time put in for the products eventual sale, market condition and so on.
Apply that to reptile breeding, you will find weather it's worth it or not to turn it into a business.

I myself don't care about the money side, I just like the animals

 

[slide]

Slide...my exact point.......Paying $500= being ripped off ......NOT better quality.

Paying $500 for a three footed beardie would be a rip, but with a whole lot of line breeding and a bit of luck you might be able to produce a two footed beardie- now that would be worth something. (tongue in cheek, not dissing on your beardie)

 

[WAG_S]

i really think there are two types of people, people who breed the animals for profit, people who breed to improve the breed in itself. If you were pasionate about the animal money should not be a contributing factor in what you keep or what animal you buy. As long as the animal is kept humanly and and the owner appreciates the animal nothing else should matter.