ls "cheap" cheap l don't think so

[patonthego]

i really think there are two types of people, people who breed the animals for profit, people who breed to improve the breed in itself. If you were pasionate about the animal money should not be a contributing factor in what you keep or what animal you buy. As long as the animal is kept humanly and and the owner appreciates the animal nothing else should matter.

Very well said. I'd rather see a product of mine go to a good home. I bred Alaskan Malamutes which beat all the others being shown around Australia at the major Royals and they were sold for less than the going price because they showed them all over the states of Australia and I got credit for that. Pet quality pups went to pet owners only and they were never bred or shown. Not so easy to do this in the reptile world

 

[longqi]

i really think there are two types of people, people who breed the animals for profit, people who breed to improve the breed in itself. If you were pasionate about the animal money should not be a contributing factor in what you keep or what animal you buy. As long as the animal is kept humanly and and the owner appreciates the animal nothing else should matter.

I tend to believe that the majority of those 'who breed to improve the breed in itself' concentrate the most on money?
They find an attribute that they believe will be desirable in 5 or 10 years and aim directly at that target with the sole intention of increased profit, which is exactly how any profitable business should be run
Their biggest down fall is the internet
Because now anyone can get virtually any information about new techniques with the push of a button
This is probably the only industry that this happens in

The top breeders now will start to become a lot more 'secretive' about advances they are making if they have any sense
This is mainly because it simply takes so long to 'design' a new carpet or childrens or woma or whatever
If I was going back into breeding I would be keeping very quiet until I dropped 100 yearlings on the market that just blew everyones minds and knowing that that niche market was solely mine alone for at least two years and my next projects were already well under way

This is now an industry rather than just a hobby
Industrial farming methods/protocols will start coming to the forefront more and more

 

[Red-Ink]

I tend to believe that the majority of those 'who breed to improve the breed in itself' concentrate the most on money?
They find an attribute that they believe will be desirable in 5 or 10 years and aim directly at that target with the sole intention of increased profit, which is exactly how any profitable business should be run..........

Takes time and lots of money to develop and improve on something its called Research and Development (in any business)........
It could take up too six generations of breeding, that's a lot of feeding, keeping of holdbacks and overheads in the meantime before the new product hits the market.

Should we expect them to give the new improved line away for peanuts after years of hard work?

 

[stockhorse]

Red Ink of course that should not be the case but because others have classics (non hypo,non reduced pattern,non albino etc) examples of the breed that are selling for cheaper market prices does that mean the snake is of lower quality?No it doesn't, it means that people are making choices as to what sort of example of snake they want and how much they are willing to pay for it.
The lastest trend of selling non feeding hatchies for reduced prices,is a prime example of what people want and what they are willing to pay.People buy non feeding hatchies because that is what they are willing to pay and think they can spend the time and effort in getting the hatchie feeding correctly.This market has always been there but it is only now being explored by breeders who consider their time and efforts best placed elsewhere. This does not make these lower quality animals but,considering a risk of not getting them feeding and dying(fairly low risk)the purchaser gets a "cheap" snake.Now this may only be "cheap" dollar wise but very expensive time and stress wise.This is where the market has arrived and will probably stay for a while.Look also at the "bulk" deals available, buy 10 hatchies for $80 each or singularly for $150 each. This is setting up a level of middle man that takes the risk of raising all 10 and making a profit from resale while gauranteeing the original breeder can move all his hatchies on with low feeding costs, time expended etc. By doing this will it help make breeding profitable? Who knows but the market, type of breeders, type of sellers and type of buyers is all changing presenting new opportunity to same and removing opportunity from others.
What a great time to be in the reptile world.

 

[Snakeluvver2]

Because now anyone can get virtually any information about new techniques with the push of a button
This is probably the only industry that this happens in

Wrong

 

[fugawi]

To Slide.....front or back two?LOL

 

[RHCP1]

90% of the time,choice of breed/sub-breed is a personal thing,everyone has their own reasons for why one is better,.Pricing should be on realistic values not personal.I bought a $5,000 puppy for $3,000,I was happy to pay the 3 because of the saving and the proof of breeding.

Now that must be one hell of a dog. can you tell me what breed of pup would sell for 5000.

 

[guzzo]

2 things come to mind. Quality is long remembered after price is forgotten and a cheap thing is not always good and a good thing is not always cheap!

 

[cougars]

Well if people think cheap is no good,I for one will raise my prices so then you will be getting a better animal

 

[longqi]

Takes time and lots of money to develop and improve on something its called Research and Development (in any business)........
It could take up too six generations of breeding, that's a lot of feeding, keeping of holdbacks and overheads in the meantime before the new product hits the market.

Should we expect them to give the new improved line away for peanuts after years of hard work?

I agree completely with this with one small proviso
Top shelf will always remain top shelf until too many others also produce it
That is why I would never reveal a thing now until I knew I had a certain sector sewn up for XXX period of time

[psst wanna see my black mamba rattlesnake hybrids.... Im trying this so on a dark night you can hear them instead of just that big black gape coming at you]

 

[Red-Ink]

I agree completely with this with one small proviso
Top shelf will always remain top shelf until too many others also produce it
That is why I would never reveal a thing now until I knew I had a certain sector sewn up for XXX period of time

[psst wanna see my black mamba rattlesnake hybrids.... Im trying this so on a dark night you can hear them instead of just that big black gape coming at you]

Agreed.......

That's where branding (in this case reputation kicks in)..... Hundreds of manufacturers but the ones with the "quality" or the "original manufacturers" are the ones that are still sought after. Sure they will have to drop the "market" price due to the increase of competition but...... say with hundreds of TVs and numerous manufacturers on the market people will still pick the Sony over the Teac (and pay the higher price) though their both TVs

 

[fugawi]

Ahh but us poor saps that don't have thousand dollar notes in our wallets are perfectly happy with our LGs etc.LOL

 

[Red-Ink]

Ahh but us poor saps that don't have thousand dollar notes in our wallets are perfectly happy with our LGs etc.LOL

Still bought the LG over the cheaper Teac as that's what you (personally) considered the better quality.

 

[dragonboy69]

Now that must be one hell of a dog. can you tell me what breed of pup would sell for 5000.

obviouslly a pup from a champion bloodlines or a dog trained for various techniches ie attack trained obedience trained drug detection

 

[fugawi]

Actually the LG was the cheapest at the time.

 

[Radar]

Well if people think cheap is no good,I for one will raise my prices so then you will be getting a better animal

I'll join you in that. I always wanted to get rich off selling levis you know...

 

[stockhorse]

Agreed.......

That's where branding (in this case reputation kicks in)..... Hundreds of manufacturers but the ones with the "quality" or the "original manufacturers" are the ones that are still sought after.

This of course only applies for a very short time,that is until the buyer realises that they are paying for branding(in this case reputation)or for a product of equal quality at a lesser price.The breeder they buy from then gets the reputation and the cycle renews.
If that cycle does not renew it means the original manufacturer did not sell on snakes of the same quality as he keeps for himself, This also will quickly become apparent to the market and the reputation shall decline and other breeders, although the quality may be slightly lower(they will probably improve this with their own selections for breeding)will gain the reputation and then the cycle will renew. So the argument of price versus quality, while it is relevent with manufactured goods, is not really relevent when it comes to snakes ,lizards etc.

 

[Red-Ink]

This of course only applies for a very short time,that is until the buyer realises that they are paying for branding(in this case reputation)or for a product of equal quality at a lesser price.The breeder they buy from then gets the reputation and the cycle renews.
If that cycle does not renew it means the original manufacturer did not sell on snakes of the same quality as he keeps for himself, This also will quickly become apparent to the market and the reputation shall decline and other breeders, although the quality may be slightly lower(they will probably improve this with their own selections for breeding)will gain the reputation and then the cycle will renew. So the argument of price versus quality, while it is relevent with manufactured goods, is not really relevent when it comes to snakes ,lizards etc.

Relevance as in once you sell or put a price on something it then becomes a product either manufactured or bred... product is valued through quality in corelation to desirabilty (not always as marketing hype can void that)

Edit * Apologies... the branding/use of manufactured goods in this case are intended as a simile and not an actual point of discussion... it prevents the use of actual breeders names for discussion or comparison.

 

[WAG_S]

You really need to distinguish the difference between a hobby and a profitable buisness. A hobby in my view is enjoying the snake/reptile for what is is and not as a few dollars in your back pocket. A buisness is is something you do for profitable gain. Now im not saying that a breeder cant both enjoy there snakes as a hobby and to make money. But i dont think that people should breed a reptile unless you are contributing to the well being of the species. For all the back yard breeders out there that think that they will make a few bucks think twice, rememeber that all your animals will need homes and sometimes they will be hard to find. Much better off leaving breeding to people who are contributing to the species and not just flooding the market with anything and everything.

 

[TeamCahill]

I realise that this thread is a little old, but considering that I have just posted our young beardies at a really cheap price, I thought it was worthwhile discussing again.

I have absolute admiration and respect for the serious breeders on here. I think the work you put in is amazing and deserves to be rewarded in any shape or form available. As "hobbyists" ourselves, I wish I had the committment you do - but the reality is that we don't. In particular, I like the comment by WAG_S above, who has pointed out that if you are NOT committed to the well-being of the species, then you should step back. Which is exactly what we are doing this year - our current babies are the last ones. We have taken the responsible decision NOT TO BREED anymore.

It is a shame, as we have seen some very beautiful, very healthy and very smart lizards be given to some wonderful homes (we regularly receive photos from some of the buyers with updates). But we don't have the space, and with more of our own children coming - we don't have the time.

There is no commercial income made from selling lizards in our current capacity - and we recognise that. It was never about making money. In fact, for us it was more about having lizards available in Metro-Sydney, rather than people having to travel to Wollongong, New Castle or far West Sydney. There are lots of people in Metro-Sydney interested, but limited availability.

One thing that has surprised me is the number of people who have wanted lizards, but have not bought a terrarium or even applied for the licence BEFORE calling me. In those cases, I have strongly advised them to apply for the licence, set-up everything, read a few books, check out the expos AND THEN CALL ME. Again, vendors will always have the last say as to whether or not they sell their animals.

Thankyou again to the serious breeders - your updates show us "hobbyists" the best way to do things, if we want to progress further. Good luck with your endeavours.

Ann-Marie