Osama Bin Laden has been killed

[angie90]

This is mainly directed at kawasaki I have tried my best to write this as neutrally as possible

Ok I hate to get into these intriguing arguments & I do admit this has been an interesting read. Everyone is going to have different opinions and it's good to share them. However, my personal opinion is conflicting with a few things eg if it is all a hoax then what happened to that flight & those people on board. Nobody can deny that they died.

I had a quick search to see some more facts & this site came up, claiming eye witness accounts (at least 25 having seen an American flight hit the pentagon). Also it explains that a plane is actually very light for it's size & when an object like that slams into a solid, bigger object, it will 'shatter'.
Obviously some of the beginning stuff in it is silly but have a read through & see what you think. The Pod People And The Plane That Crashed Into the Pentagon

I am a firm believer in live & let live, each to their own etc because I know how hard it is to change ones opinions no matter how much evidence there is (which is shown by your posts attempting to pursuade people with some facts, & others attempt to pursuade you with other facts.) I just really wanted to share my opinion & show you why I believe it as you have done.

I also understand that some people are just born cynical & question everything which is good way to be.. But here is a read that hopefully show you why some people aren't cynical about this

 

[KaotikJezta]

The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows
Also note hat a 757 is a lot smaller than a 747

That was interesting, especially the very last section on suppression of evidence and disinformation.

 

[angie90]

Also please replace my words cynical with skeptical! I always thought they meant the same thing but I think cynical isn't right.. Lol I'd go back & edit it but I'm on my iPhone & it's too hard!

 

[zack13]

Why does it matter who was responsible? Is it any less of a tragedy?

My heart goes out to everyone who has lost their life, but what are you getting at?

A 747 is over 120 ft wide, 40 foot tall.

The hole in the pentagon was a lot smaller than that.

The wreckage was supposedly VAPORISED, 12 tons of steel
And titanium (just the engines) were vaporised, YET THE TERRORISTS BODY WERE IN TACT AND IDENTIFIABLE.

Explain how 12 tons of titanium and steel goes missing (I'm not even talking about the rest of the wreckage) but old Mohammeds body was in tact enough to identify it.

Watch the video. I know you won't, but all your posts are negligible until you have researched every possibility. That video has physics professors saying it's impossible.

Tell me why 3 planes were able to get into US airspace without being intercepted? In the year 2000 over 60 interceptions were made with 100% success within 10 minutes.

September 11, 4 planes flying in US airspace for 80 minutes without a drama.

Explain it.

Not Many people know about the other building that collapsed. It was part of the world trade centres. 47 floors high, no plane hit it, yet it imploded on the same day. Explain that.

-Geez these conspiracy websites aren't reliable are they? It was said that a 757 flew into the pentagon not a 747 which is an international plane and is much much larger.

-These planes were able to get into US airspace because they were US planes. You understand that planes take off and land in the US everyday right? It wasn't like they were suspect planes that flew in from Russia or identifiable planes they were commercial planes.

-As for the third tower if you look up you can find videos of fireman that were disappointed because they were not allowed into the the building to save it since it was leaning. It was leaning so badly they had to use cables to hold it up right. It was hit bey debris and sustained bad structural damage.

-I want to know why you think you know how much damage would be done to the pentagon without actually flying one into it to test it. Any expert can speculate all they want but at the end of the day it is a theory and holds no importance to anyone until experiments have been conducted.

-Now for everyone saying we shouldn't believe the government because of said hidden agendas why should we believe conspiracy websites? They aren't allowed to have alterior movtives? Seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it?

-As for them doing this to go to war that is ridiculous. They could have gone to war with much less then this. All they do but destroying the towers is risking people coming out with the truth. What would happen then? It would lead to a riot and probably the collapse of the country. Seems like far to much to risk when they do not have to.

-For every so called "expert" that claims it is impossible for what happened to happen there seem to be many more saying it can happen. Why is that?

-Lastly why does no one mention the plane that crashed? It that to hard to explain so we skip it when making conspiracies?

 

[kawasakirider]

This is mainly directed at kawasaki I have tried my best to write this as neutrally as possible

Ok I hate to get into these intriguing arguments & I do admit this has been an interesting read. Everyone is going to have different opinions and it's good to share them. However, my personal opinion is conflicting with a few things eg if it is all a hoax then what happened to that flight & those people on board. Nobody can deny that they died.

I had a quick search to see some more facts & this site came up, claiming eye witness accounts (at least 25 having seen an American flight hit the pentagon). Also it explains that a plane is actually very light for it's size & when an object like that slams into a solid, bigger object, it will 'shatter'.
Obviously some of the beginning stuff in it is silly but have a read through & see what you think. The Pod People And The Plane That Crashed Into the Pentagon

I am a firm believer in live & let live, each to their own etc because I know how hard it is to change ones opinions no matter how much evidence there is (which is shown by your posts attempting to pursuade people with some facts, & others attempt to pursuade you with other facts.) I just really wanted to share my opinion & show you why I believe it as you have done.

I also understand that some people are just born cynical & question everything which is good way to be.. But here is a read that hopefully show you why some people aren't cynical about this

Thank you for not being rude, I appreciate it. When people on this forum have a differing opinion, they suffer at the hands of McCarthyism.

I am 100% open to other peoples views, and to be honest, I can't give a decent explanation as to what happened to the plane and its occupants if it didn't hit the pentagon.

The questions still remain though...

How do the world trade centres implode?

How did World Trade Centre 7 Implode? No oficial explanation of WTC 7 has EVER been given, is that not suss?

Can people deny that the US has incited war? For example, sending a ship full of americans into german waters (when the germans had sent them warnings NOT to travel to avoid conflict) or they would attack? The ship was attacked, giving the US a reason to join the war.

The US welcomed the pearl harbour attack, they cut off the Japanese trade, froze Japanese assets and helped out Japanese enemies to get a rise out of them. Before pearl harbour, not many people wanted to sign up for the war, but after it they had over a million people enlist. They basically manipulated the population to enlist without the use of conscription.

WW2 - America played both sides of the field with private enterprises selling resources to nazi's.

There are HUGE profits to be gained from war.

-Geez these conspiracy websites aren't reliable are they? It was said that a 757 flew into the pentagon not a 747 which is an international plane and is much much larger.

I meant 757, but couldn't recall 100% and picked 747 because I'm more familiar with the name.

-As for them doing this to go to war that is ridiculous. They could have gone to war with much less then this. All they do but destroying the towers is risking people coming out with the truth. What would happen then? It would lead to a riot and probably the collapse of the country. Seems like far to much to risk when they do not have to.

America has lied (said they were attacked by vietnamese before the vietnam war and many years later said that it was a "mistake" to say they were attacked when they weren't) and incited things to go to war with in the past. If the "truth" got out, it wouldn't be an issue because the people speaking about it wouldn't be given the time of day, just like me on this thread.

 

[zack13]

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - World Trade Center 7, Building 7 more then you could care to read about the third tower.

http://www.america.gov/st/webchat-english/2009/May/20060828133846esnamfuaK0.2676355.html
read it.

 

[kawasakirider]

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - World Trade Center 7, Building 7 more then you could care to read about the third tower.

The Top September 11 Conspiracy Theories
read it.

I will, if you watch part two and three of the movie I posted. The first part is just about how religion is a lie.

 

[zack13]

I have watched at least 10 videos but I'm not asking you to watch a 2 hour video like you have posted that is a bit extreme.

Nor do I care to listen to someone tell me religion is a lie. Osama Bin Laden hated the U.S.A because he felt they used him not because of religion. He used religion as a scape goat.

 

[kawasakirider]

I never said that religion hasn't been used as a scapegoat, I said religion itself is a lie.

The majority of gods throughout history have all had the same general story. Died, resurrected, etc. Many are on the 25th of December, also.

The majority of videos out there that say there were other causes for 9/11 aren't even worth watching. This one is interesting, puts forward lots of valid information, interviews credible sources and has even won awards (none of this makes it gospel truth, but it's a lot more valid than the other vids floating around).

I don't see what the big deal is with everyone saying it's "not a conspiracy". Whatever happened it was a conspiracy, whether it was orchestrated solely by cavemen or others were involved and profit was a motivation doesn't change the fact that it was an attack that was conspired.

 

[angie90]

Ok this has turned from interesting into painful. I'm going back to General Reptile Discussion & never looking back... No hard feelings.

 

[zack13]

I never said that religion hasn't been used as a scapegoat, I said religion itself is a lie.

The majority of gods throughout history have all had the same general story. Died, resurrected, etc. Many are on the 25th of December, also.

The majority of videos out there that say there were other causes for 9/11 aren't even worth watching. This one is interesting, puts forward lots of valid information, interviews credible sources and has even won awards (none of this makes it gospel truth, but it's a lot more valid than the other vids floating around).

I don't see what the big deal is with everyone saying it's "not a conspiracy". Whatever happened it was a conspiracy, whether it was orchestrated solely by cavemen or others were involved and profit was a motivation doesn't change the fact that it was an attack that was conspired.

Yes you are right about it being a conspiracy but you clearly understand what is being said. I think a lot of the videos are extremely interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed watching them. It is important to be skeptical of things and I;m glad you are. The only difference here is I'm being skeptical of the supposed theories that have been said.

I realize you didn't say he did it for religion but I do not care to listen to someone talk about why religion is fake. If people want to believe it then let them be it isn't hurting you. I think it is just uncalled for and unneeded to attack peoples core beliefs in life.

 

[kawasakirider]

Yes you are right about it being a conspiracy but you clearly understand what is being said. I think a lot of the videos are extremely interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed watching them. It is important to be skeptical of things and I;m glad you are. The only difference here is I'm being skeptical of the supposed theories that have been said.

I realize you didn't say he did it for religion but I do not care to listen to someone talk about why religion is fake. If people want to believe it then let them be it isn't hurting you. I think it is just uncalled for and unneeded to attack peoples core beliefs in life.

Lol I didn't really want to bring religion into it myself mate, I only meant that you (if you chose to watch the vid) skip part one as it is about religion and not really relevant.

Anyway let's just agree to disagree. It's nice to finally have someone civil to "argue" with. Same goes for woody.

 

[zack13]

Oh sorry I misunderstood what you meant about the video on religion I'm sorry for that. And I'm fine to agree to disagree I'm not wrong

 

[user 25905]

23 too many. When will people realise that soldiers are only pawns in a global chess game, and there are no winners or losers, except the people at the top that are making billions out of it? People who sign up for armed forces are dumb.

Not saying they aren't brave people and don't have a hard job, but they have no idea what their position is on a grander scale. Their lives are on the line to make some billionaires so more cash.

i have just recently enrolled to join the ADFA hopefully i will start my training in Kapooka soon, no i did not join as a soldier but as a cook or electronic warfare (and don't say that is a soldier because its not people just categorise army members as "soldiers", i can still be called to war if there is 1, my choice is for a career but if need be protect the interests of my country and its people. if we did not have a defence force or "soldiers" who exactly do you think would protect the people of Australia and their families against an attack? so tell me am i dumb for that?

 

[fugawi]

Kawasaki, heres a bit of an idea how the buildings collapsed.
Firstly you are questioning why the impact point would be so small. Look at a domestic airliner from front on, It is not much bigger than a truck, it didn't hit side on. The impact point would be slightly larger than the diameter of the fuselage. Wings of these aircraft are designed to break off on impact due to them carrying all the fuel, these entered several floors above and below the impact point.
Next, you are questioning how the building "Imploded". Simply put .....it didn't. I don't know where you got that from. The way the building collapsed is a very simple and common principal but first you need to understand the design of the towers. The central core of the building around the elevators is the central load bearing structure and the outer latticework of window frames is the other load bearing structure as well as the corners. The concrete flooring is suspended between the outside and the core. If you understand anything about engineering you can see exactly how this will work. It is the same principal as black belts breaking wooden planks. This is not how good they are but a simple engineering principal. Each plank has a spacer between them, without them you would break your hand, as long as there is sufficient force continuing downward you only have to break the first plank, this plank breaks the second, then the second breaks the third etc, etc. When the plane hit it went through to the core, the fuel ignighted and burned at upwards of 10000degrees. Well and truly enough to melt steel. This melted 2-3 floors of the core. With about a million tons of concrete and steel dropping 3 storys straight down, this is comparable to the force of your fist on the wood. This force caused each ring of concrete flooring to drop, sliding around the core and dropping vertically. If the top had have fallen over the side, rather than dropping straight down the majority of the towers would still be intact.
As far as a conspiracy, About 2 million people watched the planes hit with their bare eyes from the ground while choppers videoed it from the air and people videoed it from their cameras and mobiles on the ground. To achieve this conspiracy, the government would have had to have hypnotised the entire population of NY and implant the images into their brains then photoshop all of their camera, video and mobiles as well as all the news agencies films would also have to be doctored. I love a good conspiracy.........but this just seems waaaaay toooo far fetched.
I hope this has helped

 

[The Devil]

Amazing, I gotta laugh, almost 10 years later and people are still arguing about what brought the twin towers down. Myself, I know and accept what happened.
Yes, I accept that there were some seemingly unusual things that happened but I think the last time a large aircraft hit a skyscraper was during WW2.
That itself may explain why people look for conspiracy theories and then some others just choose to look for the worst angle in events and people.

Please keep in mind that the people who promoted these conspiracy theories via video, film and book made a fair bit of money from their efforts.

 

[kawasakirider]

Amazing, I gotta laugh, almost 10 years later and people are still arguing about what brought the twin towers down. Myself, I know and accept what happened.
Yes, I accept that there were some seemingly unusual things that happened but I think the last time a large aircraft hit a skyscraper was during WW2.
That itself may explain why people look for conspiracy theories and then some others just choose to look for the worst angle in events and people.

Please keep in mind that the people who promoted these conspiracy theories via video, film and book made a fair bit of money from their efforts.

The creator of the 3 zeitgeist movies made no money from it. He put them up for free viewing on the net.

Fugawi, how did the cores collapse mate, I can see how the floors would fall down, but the centre would still remain at least partially erect, wouldn't it?

 

[fugawi]

The top floors as they collapsed on top took out the core on the way down. The outer latticework peeled down like a banana taking out the surrounding buildings.

 

[kawasakirider]

Ok then. I'm to cold to write a reply, but that's fair enough mate.

 

[fugawi]

If you actually look at the idea of the attack, it was not well thought out. The terrorists tried to topple the towers by hitting it high up. Unfortunately, the towers design was to give maximum strength to side impact from wind up to cyclone strength. It is almost impossible to topple a tube in tube design. What they didn't expect was the melting of the core. The US government would have known a much more efficient way to bring down the towers than this ie dropping vertically straight down on top at its weakest point.