Python X Breed Debate

[ihaveherps]

hahahahaha

I couldnt sleep, so read the entire thread for some lite reading.... and feel dumber for doing so.

Honestly, the day is coming where the hobby will split in two, and for some of us it already has. There are plenty of people with trustworthy linages for their animals, have their good names due to their vigilance, and thats where I shop. Hybrid numbers WILL grow exponentially, so the front-line purist warriors may as well save their breaths, because any line that was EVER polluted will produce hybrids FOREVER.

Today the hobby is in one of those "we are damned if we do, and damned if we dont" situations. No matter what sort of systems we put in place, papers for example, none are fail-safe, so we will sit in the same position we are in now and have to trust each other, and its a very small percentage of humans that are worth trusting.

There will always be a place in the hobby for pure animals. Poeple who strive to keep pure collections will always have demand for their stock. Hybrids will quickly outstrip their demand, and the noobies chasing the buck will soon fall on their faces. When the hybrid situation hits its peak, and it becomes difficult to find pure animals ( I believe its almost here), the purists will be rewarded for their vigilance by both demand and value, and hopefully the hybridisers will have a hard time giving them away.

Regards
Simon

 

[Adam]

Very well said ihaveherps.

 

[Retic]

Yes indeed, well said and it's nice to know because 99% of my animals are, to my knowledge, pure I can be trusted.

 

[ravensgait]

Jeez you make it sound like breeding a Diamond to a Coastal will bring on the end of the world!!This must be The End Of Days!!

I asked a question a while back and haven't seen anyone really answer it IE
"""" have a question for the anti cross breeding folks and that is Why not cross them?? We keep hearing we're idiots or polluted etc etc but no real reason why not.. Please none of the -- That is what mother nature intended!! because well she's our mother too and I haven't heard her say no don't do that..People keep forgetting we're part of nature to!!! which really amazes me.."""

Simon I have a hard time believing that the majority of people will breed crosses... Over here I believe it to be that the Majority feel you should be able to breed what you want to.. Not that they like or would breed crosses themselves.

I can remember someone offering some Tri breds last year, Jungle,Coastal,Diamond if I remember correctly. They were asking somewhere around a thousand dollars each for them...They didn't sell and didn't sell and well I think they finally unloaded some for a couple hundred bucks.. Now if I was looking to make some tri breeds for some easy cash that would have told me bad idea they don't look like much and no one wants to spend big money on them. Point being that if it isn't what people want and you can't sell it then don't breed it.. Most after that wont breed it!!

Now Diamond crosses are big over here heck I've had a couple. They don't bring as much as a Diamond but many are as nice looking as a Diamond and some are even better than most Diamonds.

We have Jags and yeah do cross them to everything heck I know of at least two who are trying to cross them to Chondro's this year. Here's a Bredli Jag should it be destroyed or admired (she's mine so sticking around)

You may like the way she looks or because your anti cross you may hate the way she looks but who's decision should it be to breed animals like her?? I feel it should be the person who owns them...Randy

 

[steve6610]

The meaning of mutation as far as Park and wildlife would have intentioned, would be reptiles of a teratologic condition.
And their intended meaning for hybrids would be the cross breeding of different species or sub species.

how do you know that what they intended, i asked you the meaning of mutation, not what you THINK they wanted the word to mean, again you have side steped the real question i asked, like you always do, i'm not interested in what you think they might have meant,

i'll ask again, whats the real meaning of mutation and does it say in the rules that it's illegal to cross breed,

and not lets forget the rule about "making money" from reptiles, and the rule that your not aloud to be involved in a busness that sells reptiles and hold a recreational licence??????????

again i'm only talking about qld rules,

and my point is certain members always harp on the fact that it's illegal to cross breed and forget all the other laws they them selves are breaking, and nowhere in the rules in black and white does it say it's illegal to cross breed..............

 

[krissy78]

Teratogy means the study of monsters. Any mistake in embryonic development that causes an anomaly regardless of severity is deemed to be teralogic, and yes some class albinism as being teratologic. I am not convinced though that albinism should be considered as teratologic as it is a inherited gene flaw, not an embryonic development flaw. I am not an expert on this subject however.

Funny you should mention that as I was going to say precisely the same thing. Albinism is a genetic flaw with most animals so I would assume that this would be the same for snakes. A german shepherd for example while normally black and tan every now and then throughout the different generations will throw a white puppy. Why because of a gene carried by the parent that at some point is stronger in a pup. And so this is how people came to breed white german shepherd. ( Information received from A breeder of German Shepherds)

 

[Aussie Python Lover]

You can't be serious, so where in the wild do we see bredli mating with diamonds or jungles with GTP's????

well how would anyone know?? seriously?? do you go out into the wild and watch them mate...... eg a rottweiler can mate with a female blue heeler.......why??? cause the female is in heat male dog dont care what breed it is so how can u sit there and say that snakes arent the same......NO ONE KNOWS... right now i wish i could cuss but id get another infraction LMAO some ppl are so lame and stupid......

 

[krissy78]

Jeez you make it sound like breeding a Diamond to a Coastal will bring on the end of the world!!This must be The End Of Days!!

I asked a question a while back and haven't seen anyone really answer it IE
"""" have a question for the anti cross breeding folks and that is Why not cross them?? We keep hearing we're idiots or polluted etc etc but no real reason why not.. Please none of the -- That is what mother nature intended!! because well she's our mother too and I haven't heard her say no don't do that..People keep forgetting we're part of nature to!!! which really amazes me.."""

Simon I have a hard time believing that the majority of people will breed crosses... Over here I believe it to be that the Majority feel you should be able to breed what you want to.. Not that they like or would breed crosses themselves.

I can remember someone offering some Tri breds last year, Jungle,Coastal,Diamond if I remember correctly. They were asking somewhere around a thousand dollars each for them...They didn't sell and didn't sell and well I think they finally unloaded some for a couple hundred bucks.. Now if I was looking to make some tri breeds for some easy cash that would have told me bad idea they don't look like much and no one wants to spend big money on them. Point being that if it isn't what people want and you can't sell it then don't breed it.. Most after that wont breed it!!

Now Diamond crosses are big over here heck I've had a couple. They don't bring as much as a Diamond but many are as nice looking as a Diamond and some are even better than most Diamonds.

We have Jags and yeah do cross them to everything heck I know of at least two who are trying to cross them to Chondro's this year. Here's a Bredli Jag should it be destroyed or admired (she's mine so sticking around)

You may like the way she looks or because your anti cross you may hate the way she looks but who's decision should it be to breed animals like her?? I feel it should be the person who owns them...Randy

Nice baby you have there ravensgait i'd get me a python like her

 

[TrueBlue]

with albinism, stripes, hypomelainism etc being rather common traits that all occur NATURALLY in the wild,(some more common that others), i belive it is NOT illegal to breed them in QLD. And parks have thus stated this.

 

[moosenoose]

:lol: Who gives a stuff about what Queensland can or can't do! Isn't homosexuality still illegal there!! :lol: :lol:

(ps: Nothing to do with me! - and not that there is anything wrong with it either )

 

[scooby]

I breed X breeds for live food. This is all they are good for.:lol: :lol:

 

[TrueBlue]

moose, i think your refering to tasmania.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

steve6610
How do I think I know what Parks and wildlife would have intended?
Common sense has led me to this conclusion.
You need to give Parks and Wildlife policies and the thought process behind them a little more credit, but not necessarily award credit to the sometimes uninformed individuals who work there and talk rubbish that perhaps you are sometimes exposed to.
No regulations are intended to compromise the meaning or intention of, the very act that those regulations are governed under. This is in part, why a naturally occurring morph as represented by a naturally occurring population in the wild, could never be deemed illegal to breed in captivity. It’s a nature conservation act after all.
To attempt a prosecution on some body for breeding a natural occurring morph would clearly fail and therefore it would unlikely ever happen.
What I do know though and this has no bearing on law, is that all wildlife departments around this country do not support people out there that blatantly cross breed different species, sub-species whether legally protected in a particular state or not.

What is the relevance, and who really cares what I believe the meaning to be, of the word mutation as used in the text of wildlife regulations? However since you seem so keen to know, I would consider it to mean both teratologic also and cross bred species.
You also seem hung up on this word cross breed. Just because it doesn’t say in the regulations specifically the word crossbreed, does not mean that hybrid was the word they believed it to mean and cover. Probably a poor analogy but it also doesn’t specifically say in the road rules that we can’t drive our car backwards in reverse but it would still be illegal under the word dangerous driving if you see my point.

Cheers Dave

 

[moosenoose]

Whoops!

 

[ravensgait]

LMAO off Scooby, good one.. Hey if we can't keep our sense of humor we're talking it way to seriously..

Thanks Krissy, the photo is a couple months old have to get some updated ones of her soon...Randy

 

[Kali7]

ya. semantics it is. all aussie carpet pythons are the same species. the naming of sub species is quite a recent thing - and still is not recognised everywhere.

 

[krissy78]

Randy pm when ya do would love to see that she is great, i am hoping on a diamond x coastal in a week or 2.... she is a nice little baby. although she is for my son and not for breeding purposes

 

[-Peter]

ya. semantics it is. all aussie carpet pythons are the same species. the naming of sub species is quite a recent thing - and still is not recognised everywhere.

People really should do research before they spout. It only goes to highlight ignorance.
There are three distinct carpet species in Australia. Carpet being a common or colloquial name.
The sub species are well recognised both in science and hobby circles here and overseas.
6 months as an owner and and a copy of Weigel's Care of Captive Reptiles appears to be the level required these days to be an expert. To claim that because something is "a recent thing" as a negative is baseless. Check the description dates for quite a few Australian species. Are they invalid because they are recent?

 

[cris]

with albinism, stripes, hypomelainism etc being rather common traits that all occur NATURALLY in the wild,(some more common that others), i belive it is NOT illegal to breed them in QLD. And parks have thus stated this.

Did they tell you that verbally or have you got it in writing?
They have a habit of giving a differant story or intepretation each time you call often contradicting what others have said.

I heard a story of unlicenced who had off licence animals and they were told they didnt need a licence for them and they just had to take them to a vet for a check up :shock: obviously this is BS and they would still get in trouble if they were caught.

 

[TrueBlue]

Verbally a number of times, think about it, because they are NATURALY occuring in the WILD there is no way they could stop it, and they know this. If it ever went as far as going to court,(which it never would), it would be laughted out instantly. How ever if a trait or something simular was produced only in captivity and was not found naturaly occuring in the wild they would have a leg to stand on.
Just like hybrids that are not, for what ever reason, capable of reproducing in the wild, they have a leg to stand on as this is deemed illegal.