should new licence applications be required to do a husbandry course?

[croc_hunter_penny]

I think maybe whatever association is that is responsible for giving out licences should run a class for reptile husbandry, once a week or fortnight (depending on numbers) that is mandatory to attend before obtaining your recreational licence. Even if it is run through a TAFE or similar institution. It should cover all basic husbandry from setting up and maintaining a reptile enclosure, to feeding and handling all types of reptiles (because you don't want to redo the course every time you buy a new reptile) The course could be a minimal extra fee and go for a couple of hours, say a 3-4 hour course on a Thursday evening or Saturday afternoon.

Consider this: I paid around $50 give-or-take for my licence, sent my forms in to the EPA and in a week I had my licence mailed out to me. I am glad that I had previously researched a lot about owning reptiles, and continue to do research, but there are so many other people out there that don't bother. There are also several people I know who own a fairly large quantity of reptiles, and when I ask for advice sometimes I get rediculous answers. What if there are people like this giving bad advice to people who don't know better? It would be a lot easier for everyone if there was a standard that was taught, even just the basics so that everyone would be starting on the same level.

Sure, this scheme may make some private companies or institutions lose a bit of money because they were teaching this course already.. But honestly what is more important: a couple of blokes making some extra cash or every reptile owner having a good start? A lot of new reptile owners won't go searching for information from any sources, whether it be in books or the internet, let alone trying to find out if there are courses available. I didn't even know there were courses available until I started looking for advanced ones, so how are they supposed to know?

Also considering reptiles cost so much to buy, I don't think it would be a problem charging $150 for a licence, log book AND course (that isn't optional) instead of just $50 that any old joe can fork out, which can and often does result in poorly looked-after animals.

I am really interested in your opinions.

-penny

(this stemmed from the "Movement of our herps... opinions please" thread)

 

[Isis]

I totally agree that there should be more to getting a licence. But I think it should be a national licence as the state by state system is a nightmare. It would cut down on the people that get into reptiles for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Chris89]

I agree aswell.

Before I even got my reptile licence, I had been researching on and off for a couple of years on looking after snakes etc. While I was waiting for my licence to arrive, I was asking more of the experienced reptile keepers questions, and even on APS.. I did my research and I didn't go into owning a reptile knowing nothing, sure I might not know "alot" but I knew the basics to make sure that my python is happy and healthy.

 

[Veredus]

I think that this would likely increase the popularity of the illegal reptil trade. Many people are unhappy when they learn they have to pay the license fee let alone having to pay for a compulsory course that will take 3-4 hours of their lives every week for however long. Although it would save a lot of grief for inexperienced keepers I think the negative side-effect is far too great a risk.

 

[Bigbird]

I agree too.

I did do research before I got my beardies, but found a lot of the information conflicting. Had I had to do a course with my licence I probably wouldn't have found this to be as much of a problem.

I will continue to do research, but I do think a course would be a great idea to go along with the licence and I think it would serve to put off people who are not serious about owning a reptile.

I also think a national licence is a great idea as it must cause huge problems for anyone moving interstate.

 

[Chris1]

i definately think that should be done!

too many animals die needlessly cos people havent dont the appropriate research,..!!

good point on the iillegal trade, but theres so many people keeping them illegally already,..

maybe they should make the punishments more servere and actually follow it up...
if u had to show ur license to the person u buy rats and insects from, it'd be really hard finding a food source without a license,...

 

[Ramsayi]

Courses would only be of limited use.How many people on this site for instance ask for advice and get good solid info based on years of experience only to throw it back in the face of the person offering the advice?Also who at the various NPWS offices would be qualified to do the teaching?

Most breeders who sell hatchlings to new keepers(even not so new ones if they ask) are more than happy to answer any and all questions and advise on the best way to look after the animal and are easily contactable should a problem crop up.Its all part of the service.Most of us spend countless hours a week answering questions either by email of phone during the breeding season.

 

[Veredus]

The fact that an illegal trade already exists is no reason to encourage its growth. The penalties can only go as far as stopping people who get caught (likely a very small percentage of the total in the illegal trade). We would do far better to make the licensing system more enticing to those thinking about obtaining illegally so they may be convinced to collect legally.

 

[mrsshep77]

I agree there should be something more unionised and national regarding the licence situation! It would make paperwork and purchasing a little less of a hassle and more of a standard thing so everyone knew how to fill it out whether they were in Perth WA or Cairns QLD!
As for the traingin course, I agree there should be something more to getting your licence it is just a tad too easy but I think making it a course or something along those lines it will turn people off getting it as there are people who just don't like attending courses. They may feel that they can't express their knowledge on paper like some people but have better hands on experience which would make them eligible!
I don't know what would make it a better system but it would be good if it was though!

 

[swingonthespiral]

definately penny..... and if ppl want to trade illegally they are going to whether u give them a legal way or not theres no stopping them so i dont think giving a new herper some hands on experience and info to start them off would be a great idea and as for the national thing i couldnt agree more.....

 

[cris]

I think its great how cheap and easy it is to get a licence, making it harder and more expensive just turns more ppl away from keeping reptiles legally. I think some ppl should be prohibited from getting a licence if they have a criminal record or mental problems that would suggest they shouldnt be keeping animals(meaning only if the problem/crime would likely be an issue).

IMO it is up to the individual to learn how to care for their animals, if a course was required for reptiles it should also be required for all other animals too, espcially things like fish which are killed in much higher numbers through ignorant husbandry.

 

[Vat69]

IMO it is up to the individual to learn how to care for their animals, if a course was required for reptiles it should also be required for all other animals too, espcially things like fish which are killed in much higher numbers through ignorant husbandry.

Agreed. Although I'd also like to add 'children' to the list of animals.

 

[morgs202]

I think a compulsory course would be a great idea. As with many of us, I did plenty of research of my own, but as my partner and I both work for a large pet shop I can tell you there are far too many people who dont. I still cringe when I hear people who already own reptiles saying things like 'whats UV?' or 'oh, I thought itd be cheaper than this.' Most of them are willing to listen to advice, but a husbandry course before they got their licence would have prevented a problem at all.

 

[Isis]

Making a licence harder and more expensive will weed out the less reponsible people that are attracted to herps. These are the people that are bringing down the herp world and making the whole scene appear to be full of cowboys and idiots. If it is harder and dearer to get a licence then it will mean if you really want to get into them you will work harder to get the licence and appreciate it and your herps more. At the moment anyone can and thats not good enough. We need to look at whats best for the animal not the human. We also would be an example to other areas of the pet industry and show them that we are being very responsible and take our responsibilities seriously.
Personally I also believe there should be a higher age limit on licences.

 

[Reptilian]

I can see both sides of the situation...It would be great if we were made to do a course of somesort, but i can see how ppl may think that it would encourage others to do it illegally....I do think though that it is a little to easy to get your inital license, hay i got mine approved within 5 minutes of handing in the forms!!!

However, I do totally agree with makig the license national, and maybe get a small plastic card (like a drivers license) maybe without our address for security purposes, but with other license details, so we dont have to carry our paper license with us...Also make a better way of reporting our reptiles etc...

 

[Chris1]

if the course provided some good benefits, like 'meal tickets' fro a box of crickets or a few mice from ur local petshop, and a list of local food suppliers (which would be covered by the cost of the course), or even just a $10 voucher to put towards lights it might be more appealing.

 

[Mystery]

Agree totally Penny - I went and did a course at Ithica (sp?) Tafe. I loved it - Learnt heaps of things that I didn't know. You see so much neglect to animals and quite often it is because the person just didn't know any better - sometimes they are not willing to learn.

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

thats for the great responses everyone, keep em coming!

if u had to show ur license to the person u buy rats and insects from, it'd be really hard finding a food source without a license,...

That sounds to me like a fantastic idea! maybe something like a photo ID card with your licence number and type of licence on it, and a stamp of authenticity. makes it a bit more durable than carrying your original papers around.

Most breeders who sell hatchlings to new keepers(even not so new ones if they ask) are more than happy to answer any and all questions and advise on the best way to look after the animal and are easily contactable should a problem crop up.Its all part of the service.Most of us spend countless hours a week answering questions either by email of phone during the breeding season.

A lot of people don't buy from breeders though. For example, from people who don't want their snakes anymore, or from pet shops, who often don't offer good advice, or conflicting advice.

Many people are unhappy when they learn they have to pay the license fee let alone having to pay for a compulsory course that will take 3-4 hours of their lives every week for however long.

Sorry I meant to say that the course would run regularly, but you only attend it once before aquiring your licence, as part of the application process. A 6 hour course would be more than enough to cover everything and even have a quiz at the end (I assume if you fail the quiz you get a second chance or something, similar to acquiring your first aid cert). a tuesday and thursday night clas for 3 hours each would cover it, or one full saturday. They could even do it just one saturday a month, or one week a month, depending on numbers of course.

Also who at the various NPWS offices would be qualified to do the teaching?

Maybe they could employ the services of the companies that already offer basic husbandry courses (and perhaps set a standard of the basic requirements that they need to teach).

Perhaps after your initial application for a licence (filling out forms and paying) then NPWS can send you a list of acceptable courses and when they are running, and then you go attend with a voucher from NPWS to say that it has been paid for, and then send the results of your quiz along with a copy of your cert to NPWS to complete the application process. Then, after it has been processed, your licence is mailed to you.
OR after getting your basic husbandry certificate, you go to a QPWS office and get a photo ID along with your papers (if they were to utilise Chris's suggestion)

IMO it is up to the individual to learn how to care for their animals, if a course was required for reptiles it should also be required for all other animals too, espcially things like fish which are killed in much higher numbers through ignorant husbandry.

I think a husbandry course and certification for all animals should be necessary.

For example, did you know you can buy sharks in aquarium stores and pet stores? A lot of people will buy them because they aren't very expensive (cheaper than a lot of snakes!) and they look cool, but they aren't goldfish thats for sure! I work with a shark at a high school, and there are several other high schools under the same marine science program. Every single school (apart from mine) has had at least one shark die, most at least 2 or 3, but they think "whatever, its just a shark we can buy another one" even though the point of the program is to help their conservation :shock: I don't know if it was because they were lazy and didn't test the water or feed the shark properly, I know one death was because they only had one filter, and a lump of food that was left in the tank blocked the pump and the shark died. You should have heard some of their mind-numbingly stupid stories that make you think "where's the common sense?". I had no previous aquarium experience when we started the program but I researched like crazy and put a great deal of effort into our marine tank, and I am proud to say that it paid off because our first shark was sucessfully released, our second shark is alive and healthy, due for release in 2 weeks and we will receive our 3rd shark on that day, with no deaths thus far, and hopefully not ever.
My school's success was because we put a bit of effort into researching our marine setup. I found it strange at the time that the people we were running it through gave us no information on how to make a setup. In my opinion they should have given us hands-on training prior to commencing the program.
It is the same for all animal owners. Just think of the stories you hear in the news about animals being treated poorly. Half the time its owners neglect but a lot of the time they just don't know any better and don't bother trying to find out about it. Owner neglect would be solved if you were required to have a certification before buying any pet. it doesn't have to be expensive or anything, just like a $40 2 hour course on how to look after a specific animal (eg a cat course or bird course). IMO any dog or cat should be neutered before selling except to licenced breeders.

anyway that post is way too long already! sorry about that, I had a lot on my mind :lol:

looking forward to the responses
-penny

 

[swingonthespiral]

thats penny 1 rest of u against her 0 in my books.... penny perhaps u could send something to the EPA etc and bug them for a while cos i think its a brilliant idea and im sure u could get a few signatures from ppl to support it....

also with running the courses NPWS doesnt have to run them.... it could be a good thing to employ a respected/experienced herper/breeder to run them whom would probably know more anyway..... so it could be one of us getting paid if u know what i mean.....

 

[nickamon]

I think a husbandry course is a good idea. I'd have been happy to do a husbandry course as a condition of getting my licence. All I had to do was pay for the licence and import applications, which I think is too lax (yay NSW :| ). I'd been wanting a snake for two years before I got my Cassie this year, and that gave me plenty of time to study up...and get my own place in NSW.

I used to live in the ACT and their conditions are stricter, but also ridiculous. You have to know some husbandry, belong to a herp club, and show that type of tank your animal will live in. Can't argue with that, but they make you start with a lizard (bluey, beardie, shingleback). No pythons allowed for the first two years. Tough luck to people like me who don't particularly care for dragons and skinks. :?

I think husbandry courses would be a happy medium, instead of NSW lax-ness and ACT toughness.