should new licence applications be required to do a husbandry course?

[jeramie85]

i also think when you buy your first snake/python there should be some form of a cool down period like when buying guns you have to wait 28 days before you can actually have it

so as to help remove some of this "impulse buying" that people who have just got there license or people mainly younger people who walk into a pet shop and buy one without a license because its cool or there mates are with em

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

I think I'll get onto this.. I'll have to type up a professional-looking proposal and find out who's the best person/people to sent it to...

 

[Veredus]

if ppl want to trade illegally they are going to whether u give them a legal way or not theres no stopping them

For some reason it always come back to this. I will say it again just because there are people out there who are willing to do it does not mean we should encourage them with such opinions as "they will do it anyway" or "humans kill more than cats." Its akin to a far lesser extent to allowing a tyrant to massacre civillians simply because "He's going to kill people anyway."

 

[Sdaji]

If you search through the archives, you'll find this topic has been discussed at length several times, many relevant points are in those threads which haven't been raised here. If you are serious about doing this, make sure you read through the old material first as you'll learn a lot.

 

[COOP]

happy enough with the easy application for a newbie, got my licence in the post two days ago, money isnt an issue with some people either

 

[moosenoose]

Agreed. Although I'd also like to add 'children' to the list of animals.

Spot on Erin!

 

[Earthling]

Go for it Penny. Great idea!
Its ideas like this that when acted on can make real change.

Whilst by doing nothing...........well......same old same old.

Go for it!

 

[Magpie]

There should also be a course and licence before you are allowed to buy power tools.
And before you can buy or use a kettle.
And before you are allowed to operate a cooktop.
Also before you are allowed to go shopping, you should have to do a 2 week intensive training program.

 

[Earthling]

There should also be a course and licence before you are allowed to buy power tools.
And before you can buy or use a kettle.
And before you are allowed to operate a cooktop.
Also before you are allowed to go shopping, you should have to do a 2 week intensive training program.

Magpie! I take it your in the negative camp by this slippery slope reasoning yeah?
Unfortunately all of your examples are not similiar as we are talking about the care of another animal not ourselves......if we make a mistake in your examples its predominately on our own head....however, in regards to training for herps its humans having control of another animals health and wellbeing which is the important thing you seem to have amissed in your examples.

If however you are referring to the over use of courses and bigbrothers control in our lives and the complexity our society goes into for insurance reasons....I agree with you to an extent...however when our ignorance affects other animals health and wellbeing then a course has merits....

Case by case basis.

 

[Hickson]

it's been said in this thread a few times already, bu t the message seems to be ignored, so I'll repeat it:

If you make it more difficult to get a license, you will encourage more people to keep herps without a license.

It's been suggested that there may be more people without licenses keeping reptiles than there are licensed keepers. Increasing fees, or making people do a course, will only add to the problem. The authorities know this and until they get the funding and resources to pursue illegal reptile holders, they will not do anything to add to the problem.



Hix

 

[nuthn2do]

Whats being suggested here makes it more difficult to get than a firearms license and for what good? If you read over some recent threads some people don't abide by the current regulations.

 

[Earthling]

it's been said in this thread a few times already, bu t the message seems to be ignored, so I'll repeat it:

If you make it more difficult to get a license, you will encourage more people to keep herps without a license.

It's been suggested that there may be more people without licenses keeping reptiles than there are licensed keepers. Increasing fees, or making people do a course, will only add to the problem. The authorities know this and until they get the funding and resources to pursue illegal reptile holders, they will not do anything to add to the problem.



Hix

Its been touched on Hix but not much...granted.

Also you say :" Its been suggested that there may be more people without licences keeping reptiles then there are licenced keepers." two words...Suggested...May. Not.....Confirmed...Is.
Sorry...not a good argument.


It comes down to marketing...If you say you must do this course or your fried!
Negative response will usually come back.

However, if you market it as a fantastic oppurtunity to for 'free' learn about the care of herps, with an added voucher form a petstore of the value say $20....(petstores would be willing to do some advertising here if pursued...I would), it comes across in a completely different light.
Of course the course is not free but added on to the licence cost which initially people will spaz out at but after a few months people quickly forget...especially with positive input from forums such as this on the courses merits.
Course cost if 10 or more people come each week should only be mininmal anyways...$50 max. Especially once course material is finalised. So not a huge increase to a licence cost after all. Cost could be spread out onto yearly licence fee increase of only $10 maybe for all.


Also no test would be a good idea....as you cant force it down peoples throats.....more of an information course would also stop the negative 'I must pass or fail' negative outlook. As you would give the course in booklet form for future reading.

No problem after all Hix.

 

[Forensick]

if there was a course required, i doubt very much i would be getting into herps.
when you work 70 odd hours, nights and weekends, i'll NEVER be able to make it to a course designed for 95% of working people.
money wouldn't be the issue, but unless this course is getting done, within a 10 min walk of my house (i don't drive), and about 10am on a wed morning. i have no hope of getting to it.

such a course, excludes people like me from moving into this hobby, someone who over a month before even LOOKING for a licence form was looking into the hows, whats, and whys of keeping the animals i looked at..

and i am fairly sure i will be a better keeper than many who will "pass" this course.
just like i am sure i am a better motorcycle rider than many people who also passed their L's test in my group.

such a class will never turn the fools, morons, irrisponsible and stupid people into sensible responsible people, and at the end of the day, its the latter you'd rather looking after animals, course or no.

-that said if their was a course, and i could get time to do it, and i was looking at getting snakes, i probably would try and go.

 

[Magpie]

I had to get my boat licence recently, what a joke. 8 hour course and all you really have to do is be there for the whole time. No one fails, the test is open book.
I am very firmly against this idea, it's another example of people thinking that laws are the way to fix a perceived problem. The fact is most captive reptiles are better cared for today than they were 20 years ago. Read some old books, fishtanks, mesh lids, lack of heating, mites, canker, all were comon place.
$50 per person? Are you kidding? You would be lucky to get a half decent venue on a sunday for $500, let alone provide course material, refreshments, insurance and of course, make enough to make it worth your while to work a weekend.
Who is going to run the courses? You may get a decent person to run it in the big cities, what about in West Woop woop? Even then, the person who runs it in Sydney will call it quits after 12 months dealing with Joe Public. Ever worked in Retail?
So basically, you can only keep legal reptiles if you live in a big city, are willing to fork out for the licence (boat licence costs about $200 just for the course to give you an idea) and there is someone half knowledgable willing to put themselves through hell to run the course.

 

[Veredus]

Forensick has touched on a very good point. We license and train people to drive cars, trucks, motorcycles etc. But look how many people still ignore the rules and what they learnt on their L's. People drive while they are drunk, they speed, they pull off foolish tricks. I imagine there are many people who get into this hobby simply to show off and others still that just don't like to listen to the experts because they believe themselves to be always right. It is simply my opinion the the risk of increased illegal trading is too heavy to merit the introduction of a course that may be largely ignored by some of the more foolish people and there is no denying they are out there.

 

[wichita]

Perhaps the application for a license should be accompanied with the correct answers to a questionaire.

eg
The breed of snake I am considering aquiring is........
The enclosure requirements of this breed is......
The feeding regime for this snake as a hatchling is.....
Does this breed require UV light in its enclosure (Y/N)....
etc etc

This approach could gently direct people to do some research and on their own time in their own way. Could even use APS wiki as their source

Just an idea...

 

[Earthling]

Magpie i was thinking the course could be run in house by the EPA. Venue no cost as they have meeting areas that could be used. Refreshments.....tea coffee water. Profit....no profit. Wage of lecturer is the main cost the rest are incidentals. Cheap now yeah?...
i know this in house thing is a radical idea but for some strange reason its cheaper then contracting out...what a surprise!

As to open book tests...we have become a society where nearly all known knowledge can be found at a click of a button....the internet.....people are being tested in open books on how to find information they need not by remembering it. The old way of rembering is of course still needed however its more important that people can find information now then rember everything. New times......new testing methods......
Its also been found to assist people in remembering as they look for a solution to a problem.

You say "it's another example of people thinking that laws are the way to fix a perceived problem. The fact is most captive reptiles are better cared for today than they were 20 years ago."
Contradiction Magpie.
You say "percieved problem" then go onto say "most captive reptiles are better cared for ......."
? Are all reps cared for adequatley or not? If 'yes' no solution is needed...however if 'no' a solution is perhaps needed.
This suggestion by Penny and talked about is a fair solution suggested.
If you have a better answer to the problem which hopefully you see is their....may we have it please?

 

[wichita]

Magpie i was thinking the course could be run in house by the EPA. Venue no cost as they have meeting areas that could be used. Refreshments.....tea coffee water. Profit....no profit. Wage of lecturer is the main cost the rest are incidentals. Cheap now yeah?...
i know this in house thing is a radical idea but for some strange reason its cheaper then contracting out...what a surprise!

As to open book tests...we have become a society where nearly all known knowledge can be found at a click of a button....the internet.....people are being tested in open books on how to find information they need not by remembering it. The old way of rembering is of course still needed however its more important that people can find information now then rember everything. New times......new testing methods......
Its also been found to assist people in remembering as they look for a solution to a problem.

You say "it's another example of people thinking that laws are the way to fix a perceived problem. The fact is most captive reptiles are better cared for today than they were 20 years ago."
Contradiction Magpie.
You say "percieved problem" then go onto say "most captive reptiles are better cared for ......."
? Are all reps cared for adequatley or not? If 'yes' no solution is needed...however if 'no' a solution is perhaps needed.
This suggestion by Penny and talked about is a fair solution suggested.
If you have a better answer to the problem which hopefully you see is their....may we have it please?

I think you may have problems with locations and numbers. A lot of people live a long way away from EPA offices.

Perhaps an online/snail mail course?

 

[Earthling]

I think you may have problems with locations and numbers. A lot of people live a long way away from EPA offices.

Perhaps an online/snail mail course?

Now thats a solution!
I like it!

 

[cris]

I dont actually think there is a need for anything to be done, but if they wanted to do something they would put a short multichoice exam on the licence application, to ensure ppl know the very basic things about reptiles such as them being ecotherms, not being a typical domestic pet and having particular needs that should be met etc.

The licence applicaton should also give some basic advice on where to get basic care information such as web pages, books and the code of practice should be sent out with licences or applications.

I think a week should be the minimum time to get a licence and as i mentioned earlier criminal and medical(mental) records should be checked for any potential problems.