the JAG/RPM morph neurological issues.

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I figured for those interested, it might be a way to "breed out the symptoms" and have jags that live a more normal life. By selecting for those that cope best with their neurological issues. I may be entirely wrong as I am merely an outsider looking in.

Jag sibling neuro found it through a UK forum where the owner said the animal had neuro issues. It doesnt say much on the youtube vid itself. I dont think I am allowed to link the other forum though?

Remember that you have to make a distinction between a disease and a genetic condition. The neurological symptoms in that video can be caused by many other things. That snake could have been exposed to poisons, it could suffer from heat stress and it could also have Inclusion body disease. Dont get all paranoid because its a carpet python displaying motory issues!
 
Carpet pythons.com quote"How can you say that the neuro issues are being swept under the carpet when there has only been two confirmed cases that i know of personally? Yet it is out in the open now? We thought hard and long before we purchased our first animals as we paid lots more for them than what they are worth now. We also know that by the time we produce them they would probably be woth $500 each. We also realise that the siblings will become an issue, not because of our breeding, but because of some private keepers that can not understand the concept of not breeding everything that they lay their hands on.

As i have said in another post. There is no reason to refund anything when your customers have been made aware of the complications associated with the Jaguar gene!!! Its as simple as that!!! They are the perfect pet snakes, they will be picked off in the wild as they would stress themselves to death. Predators would pick them off easily as their colours would make them stand out like dogs balls in the bush. They also have less of a chance to escape as they are valuable and people tend to look after things better if they cost them a bit of money."

This is the sort of crap that breeders of jags will put up to shut up anyone who has a different opinion. I am glad the neuro problems are now out in the open and as stated earlier it would be laughable if it wasn't so disturbing.
I have heard jag breeders throw around the term "hybrid vigour", amongst other complete bull.
Have you actually had evidence of jags not surviving in the wild or are you assuming?

And how can you talk about "not in it for the money" then in the same breath talk about investment snakes?

All anyone needs to know about jags is that if you want retarded snakes buy one :p

Tell us all, when yours start backflipping and they will eventually if you breed enough, what will be going through your mind? honestly, because it makes me feel a little sick.

Is it crap because it a differnet opinion to yours? I am sure you said that you dont quite know where you stand when it comes to jags on another forum? Have you got any evidence that they would survive in the wild? I can talk about investment snakes because I own some of them, when you own some please feel free to raise your opinion on the topic!!! Not being in it for the money does not mean that you can not own investment snakes? I would love to have my hobby pay back enough for itself so i can quit my day job, who wouldnt???

As for your last question, I would answer that with pleasure! I would stand back and look at them and say, I am glad you are in my care and not in somebody elses care that would not be able to handle such a responsibility!!!
 
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No. You are welcome to your opinion.
If you have read any of my posts on other forum you will know exactly where i stand.
How would you know what I have in my collection?

Stop tap dancing and answer my question about watching an animal corkscrew, bend back over itself, fall off perches, miss its food and bang its head around its enclosure. Its ok, if your good with that and feel nothing, I'm just wondering seeing as you are so loving towards your snakes.
 
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No. You are welcome to your opinion.
If you have read any of my posts on other forum you will know exactly where i stand.
How would you know what I have in my collection?

Stop tap dancing and answer my question about watching an animal corkscrew, bend back over itself, fall off perches, miss its food and bang its head around its enclosure. Its ok, if your good with that and feel nothing, I'm just wondering seeing as you are so loving towards your snakes.

I answered your question. Have you ever seen a jag in person?
 
Cement

As for your last question, I would answer that with pleasure! I would stand back and look at them and say, I am glad you are in my care and not in somebody elses care that would not be able to handle such a responsibility!!!

Was there some at the Ipswich show?
Where was your answer?

Yes there was.
 
I'm getting extremely frustrated trying to reply with quotes from my iPhone. I might have to wait until a get home from work in the morning to do it. In the mean time, I might just point out that carpetpythons might be getting myself and Cement confused. I'm still not sure where I stand on jags but sm all for open discussion. Not sure why some are trying go stop that.
Also carpetpythons, you have to be kidding about the videos bring from a number of things
 
Seriously Buck. Ask the question on an international forum, and see what the reponse is. I have never been against a civil debate between members. The problem is that the same things get repeated over and over. You guys know where we stand in this debate! People will be well informed and their competency level will be assessed before any animals will be sold.
 
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I have seen it asked on sn international forum and have tried to elude to the fact that the results here are in mo way typical of overseas. That is what seems to have fueled you and others to try and down play what is being said.
 
I have to commend you on your openess about your return policy. Not too many others have been so forthcoming.

Unfortunately though it seems that if you don't fully agree with every aspect of something you must be against it. As I have said, personally I'm not sure where I stand. They look amazing but have some pretty serious health concerns. I'm just trying to get real Information available to everyone so they can make informed decisions. What's wrong with that???
 
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This has been a very good and informative thread guys it goes a long way toward revealing the openness these days about the subject and the neuro issues is a subject that should be kept out in the open imo.
cheers
Scott
 
We also realise that the siblings will become an issue, not because of our breeding, but because of some private keepers that can not understand the concept of not breeding everything that they lay their hands on.

I don't fully understand this part.
 
I don't fully understand this part.

Siblings are not jags, but can produce jags that have neuro problems. Therefore siblings may be an issue once people looking to make a quick buck get their hands on them (siblings being cheaper) and care more about the money to be made than the health or wellbeing of the animals concerned. Thats what I got from it :) It happens... it would be a tough one for breeders to deal with. In dogs you can desex them, in snakes what do you do?
 
I understand what siblings are ;-) I mean I don't understand how siblings are a problem only caused by a few private breeders who have to breed everything they 'lay their hands on'.
 
Siblings are not jags, but can produce jags that have neuro problems. Therefore siblings may be an issue once people looking to make a quick buck get their hands on them (siblings being cheaper) and care more about the money to be made than the health or wellbeing of the animals concerned. Thats what I got from it :) It happens... it would be a tough one for breeders to deal with. In dogs you can desex them, in snakes what do you do?

Sibs can not produce JAGS as it is a co dom morph, meaning they are not hets, they do not carry the JAG gene.
 
A part of reptile keeping that I take very seriously is the health and wellbeing of my animals.

JAG's may have killer looks but at what price?

Carpetpythons.com.au to say that JAG's are the perfect pet snake is absurd.
 
if i were to buy a jag, have it in a custom enclosure, in a low traffic area, as a display animal and not handle it very often, say only at cleaning times would that significantly slow or minimize the neuro issues? or is it just inevitable its going to go weird?
 
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