To cull or not to cull... that is the question...

[Mayo]

Wow who would have guessed, an extreamist web site. Had a good read shot holes in most of there so called facts, and no others to be complete bollocks. The site contridicts it's self a lot, and doesn't acknowledge a lot of facts. Seems to be trying to tie the legal system up with a lot of junk. Tourists don't see wild kangaroo's because they rarely leave the tourist destinations and city's. Police can't be everywhere at one to police everything. Forign employees are used because some people don't want to work here in Aust, they prefer the doll instead. Yes we have mismanaged the land by using european farming methods but that is fast changing, We no they are not working so we are creating new ways to do things. Yes Roo's are hit by cars but so are many other species. Roo meat was potentially another meat source in Britain untill fanatics like that lot spread there bollocks about cruelty where do they think the rest of there weat comes from. There was a potential market which could have turned government to legalise Roo farms to get better quality meat if quality Roo meat shooters would be less inclined to shoot wild Roo's because there value would drop wouldn't it. You keep losing the court cases because you don't have good evidance to back it all up. Thought to be this, suposedly this, the figures show this but we believe it to be more like that, just doesn't cut it, not with me and I'm suprise a court room even entertained you with that sort of info. If roo's were farmed then they would probably be treated, or dipped, to eradicate any diseases, bacteria or infections that could harm us those shooting Roo's for money would lose there business for quality meat and skins. Then it would really just come down to a numbers game, are there to many, or not enough. There would be no money in culling them for meat and skins, and the Roo meat industry would probably have to come under AQIS as a farmed meat, for quality assurance. Therre by bringing it to the same rules and reg's as other main line meats.

 

[Mayo]

And before I go, are you a friend of Mr Well's, still waiting for a response from him as well.

 

[Retic]

I wont worry about the rest of the post but where on earth did you get the idea they use European farming methods here ? In Europe and the UK they divide land up into smallish fields and usually leave hedgerows or trees between the fields to help stop soil erosion. They also rotate crops which helps to retain fertility. There is a huge difference between European and Australian methods, here we have to contend with very poor quality soil or virtually no soil at all, in some areas one sheep requires an acre of feed to survive.
Most of the problem is that farming consisted of ripping out virtually every tree and running hard hooved animals on the land. No similarity to European methods at all.

 

[Dipcdame]

There's no real answer to this problem, if Australia had been left to itself, then what? Kangaroos take over? although, the tree dwellers like possums wouldn't be affected, this country was in perfect balance and harmony till we moved in, the Aboriginies had the best ecology principals, th3ey harvested for their own needs, and left the rest to itself, as they always have done, then we came in and took over, trying to "balance" an already great ecosystem, WE are the ones who ruined it, how the heck do we justify Rice paddys, and european style farming in a place such as this????????

 

[Retic]

I agree totally, we buggered the country and will very soon start really paying the price for it. Whoever thought it was a good diea to grow rice in this country needs their heads read but I will say again we do not generally follow European farming methods, we grow the same crops and breed the same animals but the methods used are very different by necessity.

 

[Mayo]

Yes I no Boa but going back a long way we were using European farming technique, and in some industrys they are still used (old technique not the newer stuff) but if you go onto the site Pat put up www.kangaroo-protection-coalition.com it is one of the points they use as there arguement.

 

[Mayo]

Yes we have buggered up the country by our farming methods but that is a whole new arguement.

 

[Sdaji]

There's no real answer to this problem, if Australia had been left to itself, then what? Kangaroos take over? although, the tree dwellers like possums wouldn't be affected, this country was in perfect balance and harmony till we moved in, the Aboriginies had the best ecology principals, th3ey harvested for their own needs, and left the rest to itself, as they always have done, then we came in and took over, trying to "balance" an already great ecosystem, WE are the ones who ruined it, how the heck do we justify Rice paddys, and european style farming in a place such as this????????

That's not entirely true. Aboriginals wiped out countless species of animals and plants soon after arriving, including some of the most awesome megafauna the planet has ever seen, some of it reptilian, including goannas which made Komodo dragons look like Garden Skinks and pythons which made Scrubbies look like Antaresia, not to mention the dozens of giant mammals, very different from anything which exists today. They burned down incredibly large amounts of forests (in many areas their method of hunting was to burn the forest down so the area was easier to move through and the animals didn't have anything to hide in - similarly destructive to our insane rice paddies etc, which you mention)... I could go on and on, suffice to say that the "Aboriginals turned up and had no impact" story is as far from the truth as you could imagine. By the time they'd been here for tens of thousands of years the continent had adapted to their presence (and in many respects was a mere shadow of what it had been prior to their arrival). The fact that they weren't causing any devestation when white people turned up is merely because they had already had tens of thousands of years to do whatever damage they were capable of. In a few thousand years, we won't be wiping anything out either, because each species will either have found a new stable niche or have become extinct.

 

[slim6y]

Sdaji bites back... I think you will find Dipcdame that most aboriginal colonisers did severe damage... This happened in NZ as well with maori's. They burn forests to flush out food.

I bet Cassowary's used to be in their millions... imagine KFC back then (Kewarra Fried Cassowary). Gees, a leg of cassowary would feed the tribe for a week! Now, 5000 left in existence (I've seen 1 in the wild...).

Food was hard to come by for the aborigines so they had to use extreme methods to catch it. It was more likely the aboriginal's who were in short supply rather than the sp****ly spread out food.

If any of you were lucky enough to watch Futurama last night (Wednesday 25 October) there was an interesting penguin colony on (I think) pluto which got altered by something Bender did (I missed most of it) and their populations exploded.

Leila had to kill the penguins but couldn't do it. And the so called conservationists also had to kill the penguins... but they were loving it!

Leila suggested if their has to be conservation perhaps it needs to be done by people who are less likely to enjoy it!

This of course was followed by Australia's version of Who's Line is it Anyway with Thank God Your Here... With the famous Jim Oine (sp??). They had a skit with all four of the actors just come back from a protest... Meant to have been a protest protecting a koala sanctuary from development... I think Jim came up with the best chant...

2, 4, 6, 8 who do we hate? Americans!

Sdaji can you give me some more info on these wiped out species? Especially the largest lizard ytou talk about and the huge snakes and other mammals... I'm keen to hear what other creatures were wiped out pre-euro times.

In New Zealand the world's largest bird was kwiped out, the Moa. Made an ostrich look like a scrub turkey.

The New Zealand Eagle soared above the land of the long white cloud - and it made the wedgetail look like a willie wagtail! It was big enough to catch and kill a Moa!!! And it could fly!!! It would never have survived when european settlers arrived, as they would have flown off with whole sheep and cattle! Would have been days before they were wiped out!

Some of Pat's ideas seem reasonable... but why leave the roo alone? I don't get it. It doesn't need to be left alone.

Do not agree AT ALL with the is the 'bugs in salami' comment... Fermentation or not... NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING could survive in the high nitrite conditions that salami's and the like are 'cured' in. They are NOT just fermented - fermentation is the process where a biological additive such as yeast is used to break down sugars to produce alcohol. By that very method there indicates a lack of bacteria... If there was bacteria (such as staphloccocus) then you get vinegar! I'm not going into the biology here, but cured meat and fermentation is very different. That is what 'scaremongering' is all about. Either incorrect information or propergander!

 

[Pat99rick]

Kangaroo salami

Hi SLiM6, sorry I cant agree with all of your comments below. Apart from my stints at farming, Ive been a butcher most of my life, and made lots of salami and similar small goods. Its essential that only the very best and freshest meat is used. Any old crap like ground up kanga scraps is nowherre near good enough. At least 3 children that i am aware of have died in SA from salmonella contracted from eating salami, and there have been several outbreaks that were not fatal.
I know of the huge NZ eagle, it must have been a magestic bird. And the early settlers would have killed them all, just like the Tassie tiger here, and the kangaroo is going down the same road. Its all very sad!

"Do not agree AT ALL with the is the 'bugs in salami' comment... Fermentation or not... NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING could survive in the high nitrite conditions that salami's and the like are 'cured' in. They are NOT just fermented - fermentation is the process where a biological additive such as yeast is used to break down sugars to produce alcohol. By that very method there indicates a lack of bacteria... If there was bacteria (such as staphloccocus) then you get vinegar! I'm not going into the biology here, but cured meat and fermentation is very different. That is what 'scaremongering' is all about. Either incorrect information or propergander!"

Pat OBrien

 

[slim6y]

In the advent of perfect timing... In this morning's Cairns Past (typed out WORD FOR WORD) is:

LIBS WANT CROC CULL

CROCODILES are back on the hit list of Queensland's Liberals with a motion demanding crocodile culling be reintroduced being passed in as policy at the Queensland Liberals annual state convention at the weekend. Senator Ian Macdonald, who raised the motion, was unable to be contacted for further comment yesterday. Crocodile shooting was banned in 1974.

Ok... Editorial end... How is this possible? Why? Who has the reasons? Who here is Ina Macdonald and why does he have it in for the crocs? Why cull? Are there numbers so out of control? Do they control themselves (as they're territoria).

Yesterday I was at the Cairns Tropical Zoo... Admitidely the croc is not endangered, but that doesn't give the right to cull them. Liberal's GROW THE F&*$ UP! The zoo admited openly crocs are not endangered, but are also not a problem. With 38 deaths associated to crocs over the past 200 years would indicate crocs are nto a huge threat to humans. This is less deaths than that attributed to vending machines falling on humans... You don't shake vending machines so why go in to the water where crocs inhabit?

Further more from:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,20640207-29277,00.html?from=public_rss

EDITORIAL FROM THAT WEBSITE:
"I'm not saying that we should go out in the ocean and shoot all the crocs but I'm sorry Mr Crocodile if you're near our land you'll cop one between the eyes," he (Bob Katter, federal member for the vast northern seat of Kennedy) told the Townsville Bulletin newspaper.

Editorial end:

OUR LAND??? What a F&*KER!!!! Get over it.. Grow up... It's not our land... it's where we co-inhabit... so if people are little bit put out because they can't swim in their swimming hole... SO WHAT? I can't believe Australian government can still think like this!

 

[slim6y]

And to back up the vending machine story: according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission there were 37 known vending machine fatalities between 1978 and 1995, for an average of 2.18 deaths per year. (http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/a/005445.htm)

38 Crocodile deaths (earlier in this response I had written 36, I think it has been amended to 38 since an 8 year old girl was killed in NT earlier this year and I have accounted for one more but I don't know why!) in 200 years... Let's do the math together aye.... 38 deaths / 200 years = 0.19 deaths per year. This is 1.99 deaths per year LESS than that of crocodile attacks in this country.

I vote we cull vending machines! CULL THE VENDING MACHINES... Let's take up arms and pitch forks and burn the vending machines.. if we do so, there's a chance there's money and tastey snacks in it for you!

 

[Mayo]

Slim if your going to use american vending machine stats then you will need to use american croc stats which are far different that our own. Not in support about the croc cull don't know anything about it. But just an observation

 

[slim6y]

Thanks Mayo... But finding Aussie vending machine stats is about as easy as finding a three legged chicken to make the KFC franchise a third richer. So I used yank stats (sorry) but I guess the figure is clear... I just can't believe these liberal's that's all!

 

[Mayo]

A more realistic figure would be to compare it to the number of shark fatality's, or bees's or something in Aust. Understand your point though.

 

[slim6y]

Yeah, it's the point that's important... Nothingt to actually do with REALISTIC stats. The idea is.. Crocs don't kill... people just happen to walk into their open mouths. I gotta go... but this thread is far from over...

 

[IceTime]

Old thread I know...but seriously culls are a stupid, outdated solutions usually touted by right wing fools whose parents sprouted the same crap about their crops being eaten... their grazing land being ruined...their swimming holes being ruined their bloody fruit trees being runined...even if you want to sprout the oh but its humane argument...thats not natural..if a population gets out of control the animals starve, some maybe many die but not all. People only ever want to cull animals when it suits them...its the same attitude as the only good snake is a dead snake.... like oh theres too many roos...they are getting hit by cars oh and eating all the grass...translation I hit a roo IT ruined my car...they should be killed...or I have a farm...my land isnt very prosperous...oh its the roos fault for eating the grass....not my thousands of head of cattle...no it couldnt be them....or my favourite...oh I can't take my little ferals to the local watering hole anymore... kill the crocs... or a dingo ate my baby...and to think these kind of attitudes are evident on a site dedicated to animals... no wait...those kinda people are probably on here to make a profit...

 

[IsK67]

"We do not change the way we live to suit our environment we change our environment to suit the way we live!"

Isn't that the definition of a virus?

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

IsK

 

[slim6y]

Wow... i thought this thread was dead.... but you've just bought up a wonderful quote from one of the most famous movies this century... Nice work IsK!

Hate to say it, but it's very true!

 

[IsK67]

Wow... i thought this thread was dead

Do I admit that I read the damn thing before realising it was an old thread?

.... but you've just bought up a wonderful quote from one of the most famous movies this century... Nice work IsK!

Hate to say it, but it's very true!

Yeah it's a good quote. But it was from last century.

IsK