To cull or not to cull... that is the question...

[Mayo]

Quote from Slim6y
"Yeah, it's the point that's important... Nothingt to actually do with REALISTIC stats. The idea is.. Crocs don't kill... people just happen to walk into their open mouths. I gotta go... but this thread is far from over..."

You were right slim six month's later it came back to life.


Ice Time have you been paying attention it's not that simple. Try pulling your head out of the sand.

 

[slim6y]

Do I admit that I read the damn thing before realising it was an old thread?



Yeah it's a good quote. But it was from last century.

IsK

Well, ok, seeing as we're talking semantics... hehe... 1999 but that was only 8 years ago, so that's this century

Well, I never really found out tho... should we cull the crocs or should we let them rule the land they once owned?

Crocs have been quieter this year, stingers have been rampant tho! A friend of mine works on the Green Island excursion boats and she said there's been something like 9 stings this season and 2 within the last week... Shouldn't we try culling them instead???

 

[gaara]

slim, come into the chat, you rambunctious upstart

 

[IsK67]

Well, ok, seeing as we're talking semantics... hehe... 1999 but that was only 8 years ago, so that's this century

::Shakes Head:: OH NO. And you're teaching our younguns???


IsK

 

[Retic]

I am against the massive cull we have but it wont stop as long as money is involved. The thing that does really annoy me is that we kill literally millions of these animals and mince them up for dog food and then we push them as a great Aussie 'icon', just look at the F1 today in Melbourne where they have blokes in silly looking roo suits jumping around the track. It's as always the hypocricy that annoys me.

 

[IceTime]

Its a pretty black and white issue...my head is well out of the sand... You can only support culling from two standpoints...convenience or supposed environmental management grounds. Convenience involves all those disgraceful enough to kill these animals for profit, thousands upon thousands of head at a time with no consideration to limitations apart from the dollar. This approach has worked so well in the past just like the plenty of fish in the sea line of thinking.
Also included in this is the uneducated approach of kill kill kill you can't have crocs etc near people, roos/crow/anything that moves near farms blah blah blah which normally goes back again to the dollar as people are really only scared that the tourists wont go to their shop or that their crops or stock will get eaten and reduce their yearly wage...boo hoo

Oh and then there is also the other irrational fear and programmed response crowd who have usually been raised or surrounded themselves with the kinda people that have no idea about the animals in questions but have been told repeatedly that they are dangerous or a pest and thus should be killed.

A classic example of this is the idiot down south shooting seals because his grand dad (a fisherman) always said they were a pest that ate "their" fish....

And so far as environmental management....thats a misguided notion in itself, man are again to blame for these problems, capping populations is hardly a noble solution, we are the ones usually responsible for population booms in the first place (Roos on that military base a few years back for example)...furthermore more frequent accidents have more to do with a people population booms not animals ie there are far and away less sharks than there should be but we still see attacks as there are more and more people in the water. Same goes for crocs...one croc swims south and suddenly there is a problem...

So far as rangers etc supporting culls...not all rangers/rspca workers know the first thing about animals...they quite often fit into the category above...for example fraser island rangers shooting dingos because a kid was attacked... sorry for the kid but thats the families fault...further more its people encroaching on wildlife...shooting the dogs that come near people is hardly a sensible strategy... its up there with farmers stringing the dingos up on trees to ward of further dogs....pretty dumb once you think about it...sure shooting the dogs will reduce the population and thus percentage of likely attacks...but to do that you might as well kill all the dogs/crocs/sharks/snakes/crop eating roos/killer tomatoes and just dont stop in the name protecting people because as I'm assure everyone would agree we're a threatened species...just look at the real stats on deaths...animals related deaths are way down the list...you're more likely to die from food poisoning than an animal killing you...

All pretty simple to me...

 

[cris]

Icetime, do you have any facts to back this up? or do you just think they should be killed on a cute and furry basis? Actually reading your post you havnt even given a reason why it shouldnt be done.

 

[IceTime]

Icetime, do you have any facts to back this up? or do you just think they should be killed on a cute and furry basis? Actually reading your post you havnt even given a reason why it shouldnt be done.

Reasons why it shouldn't be done should be obvious... they're wildlife...why kill animals for no reason? Its umm kinda wrong...its ruining the world..wildlife have to deal with enough encroachment and damage by man without senseless and misguided mass slaughters...we have made enough species extict already don't you think? And most of the time for a quick buck... which is what most of the culling is done for... for example the mass hunting of roos...we dont need roo meat...and its not even farmed, certainly not signigicantly...go about it the right and humane way... and don't bring up the roo head shots either....been there seen that... shooters miss all the time...and as reported some see no problem stomping joeys to save bullets....mate im from QLD and know plenty of fellas like that...

What other facts do you need? The shark attacks on people? Thats been widely reported...(Both mass fishing destroying shark numbers and that many more people are in the water) I dont think I need to quote numbers its only an internet forum afterall... Umm take a look at the world coastal population...or Australia qld and northern australia is booming... and I'm not sure where you are from (i didnt bother checking) but any beach between here and the topend is busier now than ever before which is only natural... or take a look at retail figures selling boats beach gear etc etc....all going up...

So you have a clash of people meeting wildlife and wanting it killed for profit and convenience or as I said because they dont know any better...

What else? The dingo cull? Thats happening...dont need to quote stats but its a pretty dumb idea...as i said killing the dopg will curb the attacks but it certainly doesnt stop other dogs from getting hungry and doing the same thing... eventually you'll end up with an unsustainable population that will just disappear...same as roos same as sharks same as crocs...

Why not? Just because there is no law why not? There should be laws... and so far as haven't given any reasons as to why not cull...well I think I have made the point that only sick greedy creeps cull our native animals for profit or uneducated and misguided idiots for sustainabilty. So far as the cute and cudly goes....couldn't really call crocs and sharks cuddley... nor wild roos...

Futher to the point and its of course only my opinion... we share this place, I know my lifestyle is contributing to the destruction of the wildlife on this planet but it doesn't mean we need to add to the strain with senseless kills and uneducated attitudes... so what a croc is at my swimming beach...so what...it belongs there... I surf with sharks all the time... its a risk... if you don't want to take it don't but don't kill all the sharks and crocs just because they interfere with a couple of human past times... same goes for dingos snakes and anything else that bites... How can you be a pet owner or hobbyist and look animals with such disregard? I bought a snake as with my other pets because they are amazing creatures not as some sort of cheap trophy to show off to my mates thats just sad...

 

[IceTime]

For numbers sake, just take a look at what will really kill you...animals dont even make the list...

Causes of death in developing countries Number of deaths Causes of death in developed countries Number of deaths
HIV-AIDS 2,678,000 Ischaemic heart disease 3,512,000
Lower respiratory infections 2,643,000 Stroke 3,346,000
Ischaemic heart disease 2,484,000 Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 1,829,000
Diarrhea 1,793,000 Lower respiratory infections 1,180,000
Cerebrovascular disease 1,381,000 Lung cancer 938,000
Childhood diseases 1,217,000 Car accident 669,000
Malaria 1,103,000 Stomach cancer 657,000
Tuberculosis 1,021,000 High blood pressure 635,000
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 748,000 Tuberculosis 571,000
Measles 674,000 Suicide 499,000

Probably easier to post a link but eh....oh and I think shark deaths worldwide were about 58 shark attack deaths... and as I said...look at stomach compaints...1,793,000...think twice about that next kebab... want to cull something... dodgy shop owners point your anger that way people not a defensless animals... for what its worth and for honesty... the above stats are wiki stats but if they're wrong well let me know...oh and wiki also states there have only been about a dozen world wide deaths since 1990...so yeah obviously they are in plauge proportions and must be stopped at all cost...jeezus theres one behind me right now...arghghghghghghghg I take nothing baaaaacccckkkk!!!

 

[IceTime]

and I'll admit I can't type...that should be croc deaths...a dozen of them...since 1990...moving along...nothing to see here

 

[cris]

I dont really think the reason roos are culled is the number of ppl they kill, i dont even know if any deaths have been recorded. Although they can be dangerous on the roads and would drop your guts pretty quick in a fight, so maybe the do cull them out of fear :? :lol:

 

[Elfir]

i worked cattle stations for the last 7 years on several different places and ive had a bit of experience with the trouble roos, dingoes and other pests cause. The roos breed up rapidly in good conditions and once it dries up they cannot survive on the native grasses, so once it gets dry there is the same number on the same area starving they are also prone to getting worms at these times. Reds tend to move on a bit but the greys and wallaroos stay and get poorer and poorer as do the stock which is not a nice way to see any animal. Ive seen good rain fall over approx 2000 acres and the grass gets a good shoot, it was the only rain in the district and within a week the whole area was swarming with reds that moved in, they destoyed the whole area. People need food, if it is not grown in these areas where pests need to be controlled i would like to know where they propose we get it from. While i worked on stations i saw first hand the damage caused by animals such as roos and dingoes(which are not native to Australia anyway) and in my belief they need strict controlling to keep the land sustainable.

 

[christo]

The most sensible solution would be to get rid of the cattle, let the numbers of roos increase (as they easily do) and then eat them instead. The outcome is less damage to the land, higher quality, low fat meat for us and a secure future for the roos. Roos are also free-range. Much more humane to shoot 'em where they stand than to round them up, transport them in crowded trucks, then line them up and kill 'em one by one like we do with cattle and sheep. I think it's time we re-evaluate our meat industries - far too damaging to far too much of the land with minimal profit and employment. Eating roos is the future if we want this country of ours to stay as beautiful as it is.

 

[Paliadon]

Culling is humane. It doesn't matter which way you look at it. Too many and there is not enough food. Not enough food leads to starvation and disease.

Culling is a much more humane way to deal with a serious issue.

To anyone who rejects culling straight up I ask you a question... Have you ever seen first hand what happens to roos when they get over populated?

 

[slim6y]

The most sensible solution would be to get rid of the cattle, let the numbers of roos increase (as they easily do) and then eat them instead. The outcome is less damage to the land, higher quality, low fat meat for us and a secure future for the roos. Roos are also free-range. Much more humane to shoot 'em where they stand than to round them up, transport them in crowded trucks, then line them up and kill 'em one by one like we do with cattle and sheep. I think it's time we re-evaluate our meat industries - far too damaging to far too much of the land with minimal profit and employment. Eating roos is the future if we want this country of ours to stay as beautiful as it is.

If this was the case people would be actively farming roos now! If you removed all cattle (then also sheep, goats, and other livestock) you'll have to import them at several times the cost.

That nice steak dinner you had may cost over $50 per kg!!! Instead of the $15 per kg we pay now.

Most people complain about the price of petrol when it goes up 2 cents per litre. Imagine what they'll say when beef products (including milk, cheese, chocolate... yes chocolate...) goes up 3 x at least!!!

I am on the side of 'not culling' but I also live happily knowing that the milk I drink comes from cows, the beef I eat is grown here in Aussie and I don't have to BBQ a snippet of joey!

But conservation farming is definitely the way to go. I am not sure that a move as radical as removing livestock is required when done correctly.

Secondly... those people who call roo's a 'pest' ought to think again... Pesky maybe, but you can't really be a pest in your native country to introduced crops, that doesn't make sense. By my reckoning that puts roos as a pain but not a pest. Same as bats.. they're a pain... but they feed on introduced crops where their food used to grow!

 

[slim6y]

Culling is humane. It doesn't matter which way you look at it. Too many and there is not enough food. Not enough food leads to starvation and disease.

Culling is a much more humane way to deal with a serious issue.

To anyone who rejects culling straight up I ask you a question... Have you ever seen first hand what happens to roos when they get over populated?

I think many people are aware, whether blindly or first hand, of the devastation roos face when over populating. But as pointed out in many cases throughout this thread, the reason they over populate is because of US! So we shouldn't be culling, but protecting is what many people are trying to say.

Yes, culling is humane in comparrison to starving, but it's the reason they became starving in the first place that's the problem!!!

 

[cris]

The most sensible solution would be to get rid of the cattle, let the numbers of roos increase (as they easily do) and then eat them instead. The outcome is less damage to the land, higher quality, low fat meat for us and a secure future for the roos. Roos are also free-range. Much more humane to shoot 'em where they stand than to round them up, transport them in crowded trucks, then line them up and kill 'em one by one like we do with cattle and sheep. I think it's time we re-evaluate our meat industries - far too damaging to far too much of the land with minimal profit and employment. Eating roos is the future if we want this country of ours to stay as beautiful as it is.

I dont think complete replacement is realistic or needed but apart from that its a great idea.

 

[cris]

I think many people are aware, whether blindly or first hand, of the devastation roos face when over populating. But as pointed out in many cases throughout this thread, the reason they over populate is because of US! So we shouldn't be culling, but protecting is what many people are trying to say.

Yes, culling is humane in comparrison to starving, but it's the reason they became starving in the first place that's the problem!!!

So we shouldnt have any farms? are you serious?

 

[Elfir]

in the areas i have worked there never were any roos until the land had been "improved" for grazing, one old bloke on one of the stations i worked was 96 yrs old and he didn't see a roo until he was nearly 20, they just were not in the area although there were wallabies on those places. In my opinon the roos never existed in many areas until the areas were made habitable to them so they are they are not native to the area so therefore can be labeled pests. The professional roo quota in Queensland has never been filled. Farmers culling on damage mitigation permits only account for a small percentage of all roos killed each year. Roo meat will never replace beef/sheep as a major source of meat as it is not economically viable, to farm or shoot in large enough numbers and it would never be accepted overseas as a replacment.

 

[xycom]

I think Christo hit the nail on the head. Current faming practices aren't sustanable!
Ask any Ecologist and i think they will agree. Get rid of the cows and sheep and eat the things that need to be eaten. Culling animals is only a short term solution.

we buy roo meat for $12Kg not $50. What does a Kg of T-bone cost?

Per