I don't get how a Thermostat is bad? I've read this board and the solution seems simple to me? Turn down the temp on the thermostat during the day and then turn the whole thing off at night? Though my thermostat seems different to what's described on here. Mine is just a small black box with nothing on it but a knob with numbers that you turn to the desired temp? The heat emmiter is plugged into the thermostat and the thermo stops the heat emmiter getting higher than the temp I want.
TrueBlue's Anti-Thermostat Stand
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didnt mean to be sarcastic boa, once again its gone straight over your head, MOST thermostat set ups donot allow for much of a temp gradiant and the reptiles are kept at far too constant temps for most of the year and this can and will shorten the life span of different species of reptiles wether you agree with it or not, its fact.
Constant temps,- there we go boa, from your own admittion your saying your snakes have constant temps, tell me where in oz in the wild it stays a constant temp for most the year.??
Im not saying thermostats dont work but i an saying they are deffinitly not needed and imo more of a hinderance than an assett. Plus get it right i have not said that they WILL kill your snakes but they CAN whereas my method can not.
OH by the way the only reason i use timmers to turn the lights off is to save power when its not needed, unlike your thermostats that need to work to stop cooking your snakes in warm weather even if you use low wattage bulbs.
sorry hix, could you move this one too. cheers.
Constant temps,- there we go boa, from your own admittion your saying your snakes have constant temps, tell me where in oz in the wild it stays a constant temp for most the year.??
Im not saying thermostats dont work but i an saying they are deffinitly not needed and imo more of a hinderance than an assett. Plus get it right i have not said that they WILL kill your snakes but they CAN whereas my method can not.
OH by the way the only reason i use timmers to turn the lights off is to save power when its not needed, unlike your thermostats that need to work to stop cooking your snakes in warm weather even if you use low wattage bulbs.
sorry hix, could you move this one too. cheers.
waruikazi
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The differance i see and prefer is that without a thermostat you can acheive the same kind of temperature fluctuations that the snakes would in the wild, so you would get the gradual seasonal changes with that of your environment. Temps rise and fall slowly both seasonally and daily.
But my enclosure is 4ft long and has both a heated and cool end. THe thermo/heat emmiter is on the far left side and there's no other source of heat anywhere else in the enclosure so it only heats up a portion of the enclosure, not the whole thing so my snake can choose.
this is not aimed at anyone, just my personal opinion!
i think different situations call for different enclosure setups! down in sydney and either further south temps get pretty cold! you couldnt keep a woma or GTP etc with out a thermostat because allowing such a snake to drop to 8 degrees and MUCH colder in parts at night imo is pretty crazy! i personally like the microclimate B1ME's they are diming thermostat so the light doesnt turn on and off and you can give them a day night cycle as they would get 'in the wild'. just for the record i HATE the 'in the wild' line, these are captive animals! not wild, if people want to give them wild conditions throw live prey in their and give them some predators etc.... survival of the fittest!
i think different situations call for different enclosure setups! down in sydney and either further south temps get pretty cold! you couldnt keep a woma or GTP etc with out a thermostat because allowing such a snake to drop to 8 degrees and MUCH colder in parts at night imo is pretty crazy! i personally like the microclimate B1ME's they are diming thermostat so the light doesnt turn on and off and you can give them a day night cycle as they would get 'in the wild'. just for the record i HATE the 'in the wild' line, these are captive animals! not wild, if people want to give them wild conditions throw live prey in their and give them some predators etc.... survival of the fittest!
Ah Rob, if you quote things out of context you can make anything sound like anything you like. I at no time said my snakes are kept at all times in constant heat in all parts of their cage, in fact I'm pretty sure I said they get a heat gradient through the use of dimming themostats.
Actually you yourself said this " theres a big difference boa, this method for most of the year has CONSTANT heat not on/off heat that a thermostat provides. " I of course knew you didn't mean the temps are constant throughout the cage.
Actually you yourself said this " theres a big difference boa, this method for most of the year has CONSTANT heat not on/off heat that a thermostat provides. " I of course knew you didn't mean the temps are constant throughout the cage.
just to add to my previous post i allow a great temperature gradient which gives them the option to get upto 34 and as cold as 22 in summer and 15-22 in winter, the thermostat just stops the extreme temps that can occur
Exactly right, this is why I said different systems work in different situations. Common sense is a major part of how you set up your animals.
It is ridiculous to try and provide 'in the wild' conditions, you would literally be making adjustments to temperature, humidity light levels on an hourly basis. The best we can do is provide our animals with an 'average' amount of heat, light and all the other thins they need to be healthy.
One thing I will say though is that my Womas experience very low temps at night this time of the year, down in single figures, as long as they have access to heat during the day it isn't a problem.
It is ridiculous to try and provide 'in the wild' conditions, you would literally be making adjustments to temperature, humidity light levels on an hourly basis. The best we can do is provide our animals with an 'average' amount of heat, light and all the other thins they need to be healthy.
One thing I will say though is that my Womas experience very low temps at night this time of the year, down in single figures, as long as they have access to heat during the day it isn't a problem.
waruikazi
Legendary
You are not doing anything wrong by doing it that way, but the use of a thermostat takes out all of the natural fluctuations you get in the wild. In the wild wether the snake wants to be cool or not if it is cool the snake will be cool. During the night etc they can't go and sit on a heat source.
Where i live i don't use any heat sources because i don't beleive i need to, the snakes get a good day time high and a good night time low and a good seasonal variation. If i had a thermostat and i set the warm end for 30 degrees i would not have this daily and seasonal variation it would be completely fixed from what ever the cool end is to the 30 odd degrees i set the warm end at.
boa , i have set up a fair few enclosures the same as rob's and after doing so i find that 75% of the time they are up the cool end.they are given a hide at each end.we are in brisbane and it has got fairly cool here lately and they still prefer the cool end.
what rob is trying to say is that most new comers start off with a box type enclosure and don't have much temperature gradient at all and is just kept at a constant temp via thermostats.as you know the animals have to be able to escape the heat or move to it when needed.if it can't do this they could become stressed leading to health problems.
what rob is trying to say is that most new comers start off with a box type enclosure and don't have much temperature gradient at all and is just kept at a constant temp via thermostats.as you know the animals have to be able to escape the heat or move to it when needed.if it can't do this they could become stressed leading to health problems.
Gordo, I don't get what you are saying, a thermostat removes the natural fluctuations ? Leaving a light on all the time allows fluctuation how ? A thermostat just regulates the heated end of the cage, if set up properly it doesn't affect the cool end.
jason, where womas come from it gets to well below 8 degrees and they love it.
I know a number of people down your way that have changed to my method and now swear by it, they breed more animals and have less keeping dramas than when they used thermostats. So it does work well down south in fact it works better in a cooler climate than it does in a warmer climate.
Boa yes but constant on your basking spots by the sounds of it.
I know a number of people down your way that have changed to my method and now swear by it, they breed more animals and have less keeping dramas than when they used thermostats. So it does work well down south in fact it works better in a cooler climate than it does in a warmer climate.
Boa yes but constant on your basking spots by the sounds of it.
if they spend most of their time at the cool end i would be thinking mayby the temps at the warm end are higher then they want? if it was thermostatically controlled you would be able to make the warmer end and the enclosure temp gradient more disirable for the animals.
waruikazi
Legendary
What i mean is If you have an enclosure with a heat source at one end that needs to be controlled by a thermostat, that temp will always be around about what you set it at +- a degree. That means that the cool end will also only fluctuate +- a degree as the warm end fluctuates. This is all controlled by the thermostat so outside varients will not affect the enclosure temps, some people may see this as a good thing, i don't necesarily think so.
The way i do it with no heat source my animals get all of the environmental temp fluctuations with the minimum and maximum being set by mother nature. Rob's system is similar except that he uses a heat source, it raises the temps by ambient + whatever ammount those globes heat up to. I suppose the similarity between our systems is that mother nature is effectively our thermo regulator.
I don't mean to insult anyone elses methods esp not yours, i can see my method not working in other climates but i can see Rob's working quite well. I suppose each keeper has their prefered method.
i understand it can get to 8 degrees but i dont believe it is a must to have successful breeding! i belive 15 degrees is fine, i have never bred womas but my friends only drop them to 15, the snakes spend plenty of time near the heat lamp and has always have suuccessful seasons. i dont doubt they are more then fine at 8 degrees at night but with out a thermostat down south, its likely it can and will get much colder! and then it is getting to the point where its no good for the snakes.
thermostats aren't used to controlle a constant temp (not in my use), but to ensure that temps dont fluctuate and get out of hand which MAY result in the animals getting sick. dont get me wrong people can and do use thermostats wrongly but i dont think they should get rid of them, they should learn how to use them! most people aren't willing to spend the money on a B1ME which allows for day night cycles and better conditions, many people dont have a good temperature gradient!! i do understand what TB is saying about small enclosures with bugger all ventilation and 100Watt spot lamps running on a thermostat, i would just tell them to drop the wattage to allow a temp gradient!
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