TrueBlue's Anti-Thermostat Stand

[Jason]

jason, no thats wrong they are there because they want to be and they can.

i didnt really explain myself! im not saying in this example the temps are wrong but im saying it is a possability!

with out beeting around the bush, i think thermostats are great cause they make heating more safe, i think the BIGGEST problem is, is the bulbs people use!! correct me if im wrong but one of your concerns is that people are using the wrong bulbs which results in no gradient but a hot box? i agree, but i still think the thermostats should be used but in conjunction with the right bulb! the wattages you use i think are fine cause they are safe cause there is little chance of over heating and still provides a temp gradient; i do however think they should (im most cases) be conected to a thermostats to ensure that the temps dont get to low down south or to hot up north. as you mentioned you use a timer when you know the temps are going to get above 30, what if the wether is unusual and it hits 40 and the timers are in place to turn the heat off? thats why i like the thermostats....they are a safety backup system.

 

[TrueBlue]

if the weahter gets to 40 degreess its the same for both set ups, unless the thermo breaks and your not there, then youve got dead snakes, mine can always escape any artifcial heating.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I fully believe in the value of using a thermostat but having said that, many new keepers forget the most important reason they should be used and that is, as a safety device to prevent over heating as many of the previous posts have pointed out. If you have a perfect temperature gradient any way and can guarantee your cages aren’t going to exceed undesired temperatures then of course you will not need a thermostat. For the majority of people who house their cages inside insulated houses this is not often the case though. And I agree many cages do not offer ideal temperature gradients and in particular, many plastic tub rack systems. I get around this by air conditioning the entire room and running the heat cable through a thermostat.

 

[Horsy]

I agree with Jason. My snake had the full choice to go in a cold end that's about 10 degrees lower than my heated end but prefered the heated. Loved to coil up under the heat emmiter. She went over to the cool end when she was ready but usually slept in the hide in the heated end aswell. I believe it's because my heated end was a nice temperature that she enjoyed soaking up.

 

[Horsy]

Trueblue you jsut aren't getting that, if thermostats are used correctly with the heat source, our snakes CAN escape the heat. We have cool ends too, we don't set up heatemmiters all throughtout the enclosure so the entire thing is hot. My enclosure is like yours; a hot and a cold side that the snake can choose.

 

[Jason]

exactly what i was trying to say..lol

I fully believe in the value of using a thermostat but having said that, many new keepers forget the most important reason they should be used and that is, as a safety device to prevent over heating as many of the previous posts have pointed out.

but if my setup gets to 40 degrees all my heating WILL be off! if a snake room gets to 40 degrees and the heating doesnt turn off (because of no thermostat) the enclosure are going to get even warmer. therefor mine will max at room temp (40) where as the room with no thermostat will POTENTIALLY get hotter. and as said by dave, thermostats are for safety in such situations!

if the weahter gets to 40 degreess its the same for both set ups, unless the thermo breaks and your not there, then youve got dead snakes, mine can always escape any artifcial heating.

TB im not nocking your setup at all!!! the quantity and quality of animals you produce is more then enough to prove its working extremely well in YOUR situation. but imo in most situations in areas of different climats i feel it can be important!.
dont forget some people only have one snake, so when temps go out at night with out a thermostat the room is very cold.

 

[waruikazi]

I agree with Jason. My snake had the full choice to go in a cold end that's about 10 degrees lower than my heated end but prefered the heated. Loved to coil up under the heat emmiter. She went over to the cool end when she was ready but usually slept in the hide in the heated end aswell. I believe it's because my heated end was a nice temperature that she enjoyed soaking up.

And there is no problem with that if it is working for you. But i choose not to do that because that is not what they would be able to do naturally. I know there will be an argument saying that they are not in the wild etc etc but atleast it is something that i can give them that is close to what they would have had naturally.

 

[Horsy]

And there is no problem with that if it is working for you. But i choose not to do that because that is not what they would be able to do naturally. I know there will be an argument saying that they are not in the wild etc etc but atleast it is something that i can give them that is close to what they would have had naturally.

So naturally they don't choose between basking in the heat then going somewhere cooler? That's what you are saying.

 

[Earthling]

I find with a box type enclosure I need a higher wattage globe to warm the 'hot' area compared to Robs long, partitioned design. This box type therefore uses more energy and in this 'save the planet' mentality we are all swinging too, isnt that a plus straight up?

Also I found that the 'cool' end of the enclosure in the box type was consistently a few degrees above room temperature, even with a gaping big hole down the cool end for heat transfer.
But with a partitioned design cool end temp was consistenly the same or below room temperature. Larger temp gradient means a happier snake.

With this long partition design, I use lower wattage globes depending on the season(25watt and 40watt) and the heat is localised and regulated enough switching between globes twice a year, that a thermostat is irrelevant and not needed.

After some experimentation I also found that putting a half petition and a full petition (allowing a hole for the snake) in each cage allowed no heat transfer to cool end and also gave a warmer heat gradient in the warm end.
So larger temp gradient, larger warm areas, save energy, save money(power and thermostats), cooler 'cool' ends = happy herpers and herps.
All good.

 

[waruikazi]

So naturally they don't choose between basking in the heat then going somewhere cooler? That's what you are saying.

No what i am saying is they do not naturally always get a basking spot of 34 degrees. Some days they don't get a basking spot, naturally at night they may get down to 4 degrees and then back up to 45 during the day. Naturally they have very little access to constant temperatures.

 

[Horsy]

So therefore the snake is better off to being able to bask everyday seeing as they are a coldblooded creature who relys on the heat to keep warm. I think if a snake got to choose between one day hot, one day cold, one day warm: one day out of three for a good bask, they'd prefer a constant access to basking. If my snake doesn't want to bask,. it doesn't have to but it chooses to because it WANTS to.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Horsy
What size cage are you using ?
What wattage bulb are you using ?
Assuming you have measured temperatures at both extremes what are they ?

Cheerts Dave

 

[stary boy]

YOU CHANGED MY THREAD NAME lol!!!!

 

[Horsy]

My enclosure is 4ft long. I dont use a bulb I use a heat emmiter. It plugs into my thermostat and the thermo stops it getting higher than the temp I want it to. Usually the heated end is 29-30 degrees and the cooler end sits at about 20-21 degrees.

 

[waruikazi]

So therefore the snake is better off to being able to bask everyday seeing as they are a coldblooded creature who relys on the heat to keep warm. I think if a snake got to choose between one day hot, one day cold, one day warm: one day out of three for a good bask, they'd prefer a constant access to basking. If my snake doesn't want to bask,. it doesn't have to but it chooses to because it WANTS to.

When have i said what you are doing is wrong? If i recall properly i said if that works for you then great keep up the good work. How long have you kept snakes and do you breed them?

I have not kept them for along time compared to some other herpers but i have and do breed my snakes and do so with reasonable success. I am sharing with people who want to listen what works for me. All of my snakes are healthy and i know this because i get them vet checked regularly, one big factor in keeping a healthy snake and breeding them is haveing a good temperature and temperature varient, both daily and seasonally.

 

[Jason]

this is not directed at anyone inparicular! i feel this gets thrown around WAY to often!
'IN THE WILD' is a bad term imo, i have a part time job in a pet shop on the weekends and i here this atleast once a day! this is just a few of the things i have customers say to me every weekend:
-'they dont need a heat light, they wouldnt have it in the wild'
-'they eat live mice and rats and what ever else i catch around the house, they would eat it in the wild'
-'i feed him every 10-12 weeks, thats all he would catch in the wild'
-i never worm them, who's gona worm them in the wild?'

im not joking this is some of the things i here EVERYWEEK! then i reply with the following:
1) these arent wild animals.....they are captive and so should be given the best of conditions that you can give them!
2) i then usually ask if they have a dog and wether the treat it like a wild dog, and throw them rotting animal, or just release animals into the backyard so the dog can catch it and kill it like it would do IN THE WILD, dont supply a bed etc and just let it find somewhere in the yard it likes (which some dogs do), wether they worm them or wash their dog.......... usually they look after their dog ok, but to them they look at reptiles like wild animals still.

i just believe with the rate that this hobby is growing, that the coment just gets thrown around to much and people should start talking about reptiles lilke they are captive animals more cause if we the breeders dont, then all the new comers will also be using the excuss that its like that 'in the wild'

sorry about my little rant..... i probably should have started a new thread...lol

 

[Horsy]

I have not bred, no. I know the topic started off with "how can you breed with those things" but then changed to allround thermo use being bad so I came in to state otherwise.

I know you never said it was bad and I appreciate that. I just find something people are saying are a little self-contradicting.

 

[SLACkra]

just thought i'd chime in. i'd say the main problem with thermostats when used in those box cages is that the temp in the entire tank is pretty much the same. My snake currently is heated by a heat matt controled by a thermostat that gives him a constant 30-35'C heat source. however he mainly uses it when hes digesting or coming up to a shed. the rest of the time hes out wonder the tank in conditions as low as 14'C so thats a temp gradient of over 15'C.

robs method works on the principle that the snake knows what's best for itself. The snake is its own thermostat! Robs method also includes using that barrier to allow a smaller lower water bulb to be run constantly and allow a good temp on one side while keeping the other side relatively unheated.

robs method and the method i am using at the moment allow for malfunctioning equitment to cause no damage to the snake as if the heating dosen't turn off the snake can excape the heat at the cold end of the enclosure.

i think the main thing to keep in mind when designing or setting up a reptile enclosure is as i said above the snake knows whats best for itself!

andrew

 

[waruikazi]

I have not bred, no. I know the topic started off with "how can you breed with those things" but then changed to allround thermo use being bad so I came in to state otherwise.

I know you never said it was bad and I appreciate that. I just find something people are saying are a little self-contradicting.

I would really like to know how i have contradicted myself. Please tell me.

 

[Horsy]

I'm not implying you. I said some people.