Why no Poop??

[Digitaliss]

As the heading describes I am having a poop problem, well more specifically a lack of. The animal in question a a BHP, hatched in January and weighing 95 - 100g.

Just before her eyes began to milk over she began to have very runny poo, which I dismissed as shedding stress. Her last feed before shed was 02/09/2011 and she shed on the 14/09/2011. In this time she was not fed, but did two more runny poops's.

Her first feed after shed was the 17/09/2011 as he shed was bad so it took a few days to completely remove the retained sections. I also changed food brand back to what she had before we noticed the runny poo. She was fed a pinky rat, weighing approx 7-10g.

She then had a second feed of pinky rat, same size on the 24/09/2011.

On the 29/09/2011 I did a complete tank clean and found not a single poop. She has been passing Urate as normal, which I have spot cleaned out.

Tonight I have bathed her and had a really good fell of her entire length and cannot feel any lumps of poo that are making her constipated. She is not swollen or grumpy and is still very interested in food, though I have not fed her again.

Should I feed her again a larger food item and see what happens or not feed her just yet?

I have booked her in a for a vet trip on Monday, but if the general opinion is that she just hasn't had enough food to need to poop, then I may save the money.

 

[prettypython]

Pinkys sound very small, there is very little nutrition in an un furrd rodent. The pinky rats bones are also lacking in callcium. I have 2 pythons of simular size and where eating suckling RATS(About 20 gm) but had none the other day and they ate a day old ckicken and have since eaten a small weaner rat that probally weighed over 30 gm.

 

[Ozzie Python]

snake don't crap like clock work.

The food you have given your bhp may well have gone into growth. consider how big bhp's can get, and their growth rate. I would guess that this bhp is approaching 12 months old? At under 12 months of age food turning into growth is fairly common. If my gues at age is correct i'd be increasing the feed size, many will start bhps and woma on pink rats as hatchies. Without seeing the snake and assuming it has fed well its entire life to date i'd hazzard a guess a large fuzzy-hopper rat would be suitable.

Pythons also tend to just hang on, i have a woma at the moment that has about 500g of rats in him, plenty of urates but no turds. he hangs on fairly regularly regardless of taking him out for a wander etc. usually a full enclosure clean out or a trip out to the grass in the morning before it gets too hot does the job.

never bothered with giving them a bath but have heard it can help, i figure increased activity does the job so doesn't matter how you go about it.

 

[pythonmum]

A furred rodent will probably firm up the poop. I would give her something with fur and wait. She is still normally active,, passing irate and interested in food, so sounds okay. My womas wait a long time in between firm poops. This is normal. Go with some furred prey and just keep an eye on her. She will love the extra feeding

 

[Bluetongue1]

Sounds like a case of lack of roughage (indigestible material in the diet). The fact that the snake is producing urates clearly indicates it is digesting and using its food. In fact, it is digesting all of what it is eating and using all of it – hence no poo.

Normal roughage is made up of fur or feathers, skin and solid chunks of bone – all of which are lacking in pinkies. As the digestive system is geared to getting rid of roughage, a diet lacking in it will ultimately cause serious health issues.

Follow the advice given about feeding something with fur (or feathers) and you’ll soon be wishing you had not posted lol.

Blue

 

[Digitaliss]

snake don't crap like clock work.

I understand this, but she is normally fairly regular which is why I was a little worried. In saying that, it was her first shed with us, so I cannot say how she is normally after sheds.

The food you have given your bhp may well have gone into growth. consider how big bhp's can get, and their growth rate. I would guess that this bhp is approaching 12 months old? At under 12 months of age food turning into growth is fairly common.

I had thought this myself, but was not sure if it actually happened.

If my gues at age is correct i'd be increasing the feed size, many will start bhps and woma on pink rats as hatchies. Without seeing the snake and assuming it has fed well its entire life to date i'd hazzard a guess a large fuzzy-hopper rat would be suitable.

In my personal opinion she is slightly small for her age and was skinny when we received her, even according to her vet. She was slow to start feeding as a hatchling and has only had one shed since we received her in June. When we received her she was only feeding once every 14 days on pinky rats so we have slowly increased her to a Pinkly rat every five (then slowed for shed).

I had thought to increase size, but was not sure what to go to. I have just purchased day old quail chicks to see how she goes with them. She could manage a velvet rat, but Im not sure if she could go much bigger (going by the rule of widest part of the snake is approx equal to widest part of prey).

Thank you for the advise everyone and hopefully some quail will fix her up

 

[Darwin-Girl88]

My Girl is 10 months old, she is a darwin Carpet and she is on 18gm Adult Mice, she Poo's a day or 2 before she eats but quite often Goes 2-3 weeks with out Poo'ing, i just give her a luc warm bath and there it is and if it doesnt then i "assume" it would go into her for growth

 

[pythonmum]

If you are not sure about furred rats, go into the mouse sizes for something furry. A weaner mouse would be a nice prey size for her and would have plenty of calcium and fur for growth and roughage. I usually go up the mouse sizes and then onto furred rats to keep them on more roughage. Quail will be good, too, but can be a bit watery when it comes out the other end.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'd be giving it anything up to large adult mice if it was hatched in January. It will manage them very well.

There seems to be some sort of obsession with regular defecation on this site. If all else seems OK, the spacing between passings is of no concern. These are not warm-blooded animals that have a processing routine the way mammals have.

Jamie

 

[pythonmum]

There seems to be some sort of obsession with regular defecation on this site. If all else seems OK, the spacing between passings is of no concern.

So true! Perhaps people have seen too many laxative commercials....

 

[Chris1]

my first bredli went thru a packet of 12 pinky rats (1 per week) without pooing,..i was told pinkies get completely absorbed leaving very little to no waste, as soon as i moved him to furry rats he was crapping like a champ again.

 

[Digitaliss]

We have poo! Such a strange thing to be exciting about lol!

So it seems that the quail did the trick. I have purchased Hopper mice for her for a little while and see how she goes, along with the day old quails. As I have said, I think she is a little small for her age, (but i'm sure that will change with the correct diet) but I will keep monitoring her food size.

Chris, I thought it may have been the case, but was not sure if it actually happened, or if I was just making stuff up in my head

Pythoninfinite (Jamie) I was only a little concerned because was was close to clock work until her shed, but all seems very well

 

[pythonmum]

Glad to know that the roughage did the trick. A varied diet of rodent and quail will be good for her. Feed items 10-20% of her bodyweight and you won't be oversizing the prey. When she gets going, you won't believe the growth rate!

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It won't be the 'roughage' that did the trick, it's just a matter of time. Most snakes are not 'regular' in the way mammals are, and you'll find that over time, varying periods between defecations is the norm for you reptiles. Can go from days to several weeks without any great impact on health. One of the factors that influences the time between is exercise, if the snake is active it will pass more frequently, if it just moves from hide to basking spot and back again, it may hold on a lot longer.

Jamie

 

[wokka]

If I read correctly that your BHP hatched in January and is now 100grams having only been fed pink rats about fotnightly since birth; then I would suggest the animal has no surplus left to make poo. It will be fine with fuzzie rats weekly for a while, then move onto weaners. I think food items 10-20% of body weight will only supply a maintainence diet and will not produce much growth although that will depend upon frequecy of feeds. If you feed a BHP on mice you will go broke- great for rodent breeders, buts if it takes rats keep it that way.

 

[Bluetongue1]

It won't be the 'roughage'that did the trick, it's just a matter of time... Jamie

In this particular instance I would disagree. The python’s digestive system was clearly active due to the regular production of urates over the two weeks and no doubt the following week. The snake was able to digest everything it ate and there were no solid wastes remaining. The appropriate solution is to increase the amount of food and to provide roughage at the same time. This is why feeding it say two pinkies instead of one is not the best idea.

I definitely agree with the variability of time taken to defaecate and its relationship to activity levels and duration.

...Her first feed after shed was the 17/09/2011 as he shed was bad so it took a few days to completely remove the retained sections. I also changed food brand back to what she had before we noticed the runny poo.

Changing your food supplier sounds like a wise move. The bad shed could very likely have been caused by dehydration resulting from the bouts of diarrhoea. Hopefully the next shed will be fine.

My Girl... Poo's a day or 2 before she eats but quite often Goes 2-3 weeks with out Poo'ing, i just give her a luc warm bath and there it is and if it doesnt then i "assume"it would go into her for growth

2 to 3 weeks is still within the normal range. At 2 weeks I would not be concerned but by 3 weeks I would be doing as you do - some gentle palpation of the back end forward of the vent. If you are finding it needs the bath to help it poo it could be related to internal hydration. The bath water softens the stools once it enters the vent and lower rectum, allowing the snake to pass them. Hard stools most often result (though not exclusively) from low internal water levels, where as much moisture is reabsorbed as can be. Pythons prefer fresh water and will not drink water that has stood for longer than a day or so. If you don’t do it already, try giving it fresh water every couple of days and see if that makes any difference. Wet thawed can also add a little water to their intake. If you do all that, just ignore me and keep up the good work.

Blue

 

[Digitaliss]

If I read correctly that your BHP hatched in January and is now 100grams having only been fed pink rats about fotnightly since birth; then I would suggest the animal has no surplus left to make poo. It will be fine with fuzzie rats weekly for a while, then move onto weaners. I think food items 10-20% of body weight will only supply a maintenance diet and will not produce much growth although that will depend upon frequency of feeds. If you feed a BHP on mice you will go broke- great for rodent breeders, buts if it takes rats keep it that way.

Going on the feed log I received she was a problematic feeder. After we received her, we increased to weekly feeds of pinky rats on the 3/7/2011 and then for every 5 days of pinky rats on the 05/08/2011. I am now looking to do Hopper mice every 5-7 days (atleast until what I have just bought is gone) alternated occasionally with day old quail chicks. I will get her back onto rats after this is done.

Pythons prefer fresh water and will not drink water that has stood for longer than a day or so. If you don’t do it already, try giving it fresh water every couple of days and see if that makes any difference. Wet thawed can also add a little water to their intake.

She drinks plenty, my fiance loves watching her drink and she gets fresh water every few days. Her food is also fed to her wet.
I think there was a few contributing factors to her bad shed, including a little scale damage that she had when we received her. I also think (but im not 100% sure if it would actually affect it) is the VERY long time between sheds for a snake her age.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Digitaliss,

The comments you quoted were directed at Darwin-Girl88. The on-going “runny poos” you mentioned could quite easily have temporarily dehydrated your snake. Dehydration is a major cause of bad sheds. I was unaware of the scale problem and it sounded like this shed was significantly worse than normal. I was simply offering a likely explanation if that was in fact the case.

The timing between sheds is an indicator of the growth rate. Occasionally other factors come into play and a snake will shed more frequently than expected. About every 6 weeks is an indication of a good healthy growth rate. 10 to 12 weeks or longer would indicate an increase in the amount of food being given is in order. These figures apply to young snakes. Growth slows down as snakes get older.

Blue

 

[Digitaliss]

Digitaliss,

The comments you quoted were directed at Darwin-Girl88. The on-going “runny poos” you mentioned could quite easily have temporarily dehydrated your snake. Dehydration is a major cause of bad sheds. I was unaware of the scale problem and it sounded like this shed was significantly worse than normal. I was simply offering a likely explanation if that was in fact the case.

The timing between sheds is an indicator of the growth rate. Occasionally other factors come into play and a snake will shed more frequently than expected. About every 6 weeks is an indication of a good healthy growth rate. 10 to 12 weeks or longer would indicate an increase in the amount of food being given is in order. These figures apply to young snakes. Growth slows down as snakes get older.

Blue

No worries Blue, I am sorry that i mistook the recipient of that particular comment.

The shed was indeed worse than normal, it was in fact terrible. Thank you for offering an explanation and I do think that it was a contributing factor. My apologies if my reply come across grouchy and defensive, it was not intended that way at all, I have come to highly respect your opinions and advise after reading many of your posts on other threads.

When we received our snake, she was very skinny, even according to the vet. We increased her food intake slowly so it was not a huge shock to her system. I am hoping that now she is being fed a lot more regularly she will being growing at a proper rate, and if she does not I will know that I have still not got her feeding size and schedule correct for her.

 

[wokka]

If you had you time again would you buy a skinny underweight snake with an inconsistant feeding record, presumably cheaper; or buy an animal which may cost a bit more from a reliable breeder who has a reputation to maintain?