Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by madsylar, Sep 4, 2015.
Hi, has anyone tried it? Is there any reason why we don't see many of these around?
It can/has been done, But it is frowned upon by some people.
Any problems doing it? I couldn't find pictures or any website about it
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It should produce some cool morphs
They are two distinct species and breeding these together would create a hybrid which is both frowned upon and illegal in majority of Australian states.
Don't do it, you are not going to 'create' and cool morphs or that, just a weird looking snake that will look a little like a spotted and a little like a stimson. It has been done before but this was years ago while they where all still lumped under childreni.
Stupid, dont do it
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For some reason people consider it OK for carpets to be mixed and even blue tongues but still cringe when it comes to Antaresia
I agree totally. The only good thing about having all these crossbred muts is our purebreeds will be worth more in the future. Certain species don't cross in the wild for a reason. Unfortunately some people have claimed to have bred new species of albinos but all they've done is crossed for egsample a darwin albino with a normal coast carpet and then bred the cross het offspring with another darwin albino and then they have few albino crossbreeds which they breed etc etc. So in the end you have a crossbred mongrel albino that will never breed pure. I'm just using the darwin and coastal as an egsample of what can be done. Anyway its crap so be careful what you're buying and don't believe everything you hear. You can get an amazing variety of patterns and colours be breeding the same species. Keep it pure man!
This argument is so invalid. First, the fact that there aren't hybrids in the wild "for a reason" doesn't mean much. Following the same reasoning, we don't have many pied / albino / t+ etc in the wild "for a reason" so let's not work on then. Second you haven't added anything to your idea that we should keep things "pure". If we can get some cool animals by mixing some antaresia subspecies I don't see any reason why we shouldn't do it.
The hybridisers have already mucked up our captive gene pool with most species/subspecies, for just the reason you've put forward - YOU don't see any reason why it shouldn't be done. The reasons why it is not a good idea will no doubt never be absorbed by you, because they are subtle, and rely on a reasonably high understanding of the philosophies behind the privilege of being permitted to keep native species of any sort. If beautiful examples of "pure" species animals are not good enough for you, go for it... continue the mucking up of the already buggered captive gene pool to get your hands on "cool" animals.
By the way, what you would get would not be "morphs," they would be hybrids. A morph is a variant within a species.
As long as the animals are looked after and treated with the respect they deserve, I say, Potato, Potarto.
I do know that this is a touchy subject, and for good reason I guess, so I avoid talking about it too much. I guess the reason I don't mind a snakes genes because I own an "intergrade", but I don't think it really is. He behaves like a normal snake, and I think that as long as we don't cause life threatening problems (ie with jags) it's ok.
To all purists out there, please don't take my post as an insult of as flippancy. I do appreciate pure animals, and respect them just the same.
You can breed a Stimmy to a Spotted but as many other members have stated, this is not a particularly popular action. IMO if you want to hybridise but still keep people happy and still keep the pure bloodlines there are things you can do:
Either breed it as a once-off and don't breed the hatchlings, or sell them to anyone who might like to breed, of course give them the info that it is a hybrid and that you shouldn't breed it at all costs
Do whatever you want, but keep it separate from the other pure bloodlines, and tell any potential buyers to do the same. These snakes are your canvas but there is no point in mixing the Mona Lisa with Starry Night, if you know what I mean.
I hope you have success if you do breed them but follow other people's advice about bloodlines.
I agree with Bredli. There are honest sellers out the, like K bros Pythons, who breed jags and cross snakes of the morelia genus and tall potential buyers all the needed information and are quite open with their efforts.
Perhaps a separate license that prevents keepers from keeping both hybrids and pure animals. An either/or sort of deal. That'll sort out the people interested in the reptiles from those interested in themselves.
Would be hard to police of course.
I'm happy to change my mind but so far I've only heard opinions and preferences, but thanks for the correction regarding morphs. If we can get some cool looking snakes through hybrids, I don't see any problems with it. Cheers
You might not see a problem with it but the law in most states does. There are cases where entire clutches of hybrid animals have been euthanased.
Your career as a breeder might be short lived if you were to have a clutch removed for this reason.
I found laws regarding releasing hybrids in the wild, but not breeding them as pets. Are you sure? Certainly not in NSW or VIC.
The futures of these snakes can never be controlled, given that they will live at least 15+ years and could likely pass through several pairs of hands during that time. "Policing" their management would be impossible, given that most of the progeny will be visually indistinguishable from their origin species. One of the problems with hybridising is that there will likely be only very few "special" looking snakes in a clutch, and considering the distaste that hybridising engenders in the herp community, those that do it are often secretive about their activities, so sell the unwanted progeny as something they are not. I am well aware that I'm trying to swim up a waterfall with this cross-breeding thing, but the changes in the types of people keeping reptiles when they became captive-bred commodities has not been universally good for the hobby or the reptiles concerned.
Most things in life go full circle. Everyone wants the new sexy looking hybrid but eventually most people want the pure animals again. What sucks is that eventually all the hybrids will not be as valuable and most become unwanted. The worst thing is that big breeders have seen this happen here and overseas and they know what the end result is, they just don't care enough because their pockets get full. At the end of the day the animals suffer.
I can honestly say I have NEVER wanted to own a hybrid of any sort. But I do like exceptional examples of locality/species pure animals. The local pythons up here on the mid-north coast can be very pretty, but they are cryptic and we usually only see them around the house or on the roads at night, occasionally during the day. But we do have some cracker Bell's phase Lacies around here - very pretty indeed.
I noticed someone earlier in this thread mentioned intergrades. Although this is a useful term in that it relates to snakes from the region between where Diamonds prevail in the south and the Coastal Carpets fill the python niche in the north - from around Newcastle to Coff's Harbour. The snakes from this region exhibit characteristics of both Diamonds & Carpets to varying degrees, but are NOT hybrids of the two. They are simply the animals that occupy the transition zone, and their colouring & patterns reflect the habitats in which they live. They have probably been in this habitat/region as long as both Diamonds and Coastals have occupied their own specific niches. To suggest that Intergrades result from the mixing or Coastals and Diamonds in quite incorrect.
I mentioned the intergrades. My python was sold as an intergrade, but when I asked what he was crossed with, they told me jungle, MD and Coastal. So I don't think that makes him an intergrade.
[MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION], I agree about the lacies. We go camping up near Mudgee and some normal and Bell's phase ones inhabit the area. They once broke into our tent and ate two brioche. Good to know he likes food from my country, I guess. Very nice animals, them lacies are.