JasonL
Almost Legendary
don't have scales??
Skaarfing ?
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waruikazi
Legendary
Now that is pin head syndrome if ever i seen it. :lol:
Colin
morelia
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great looking stimmie Jason and (imo) fed well
Looks like its fed more than 'a pinky mouse a week' though Good stuff.
Tsidasa
Very Well-Known Member
coloquilism
bitey
Very Well-Known Member
Thankyou to those people that gave info on "how to skaarf/ power feed "
greatly appreciated.
greatly appreciated.
hazzard
Very Well-Known Member
It may suprise some, but early results of the scientific trial being undertaken (on childrens pythons) seem to indicate a certain degree of self regulation in relation to feed intake. Feeding at 30% of bodyweight or to refusal per week was successful for a period of about 5 months, from there intake began to subside to a much lower level of about 20% BW per week.
No details from the trial will be made public until an initial publication is made but this seems to indicate they know what they can handle to some degree.
I'm not ashamed to admit that i started the term as it sort of emulates the style Shane uses. I have tried both approaches on my animals and haven't lost 1 yet (touch wood).
Everyone has seen the posts from Shane each year "Shane@aussiepythons has done it again "tanami womas at 18 months" he has an amazing success rate and until proven right or wrong by scientific evidence i keep an open mind!
No details from the trial will be made public until an initial publication is made but this seems to indicate they know what they can handle to some degree.
I'm not ashamed to admit that i started the term as it sort of emulates the style Shane uses. I have tried both approaches on my animals and haven't lost 1 yet (touch wood).
Everyone has seen the posts from Shane each year "Shane@aussiepythons has done it again "tanami womas at 18 months" he has an amazing success rate and until proven right or wrong by scientific evidence i keep an open mind!
Exactly, if/when I see actual scientific data to show me this method is detrimental I will continue. I don't mean "everyone I know says it's wrong" I mean a real scientific study. It would appear from this thread alone a great many people use and trust this method plus there are a great many more who don't make their feeding regime public but do in fact follow the Scaarf method
Of course people have different opinions on this subject just like with any other husbandry technique, whatever works for the individual.
Of course people have different opinions on this subject just like with any other husbandry technique, whatever works for the individual.
M
MrBredli
Guest
I look at it this way, i can eat only McDonald's, KFC and pizza for my entire life. I probably won't die straight away, and i will be able to breed, but i won't be healthy. I'll probably die at 40 instead of what could have been 100 and when they cut me up they will see how much damage was done to my kidneys, liver and heart.
At the end of the day, people who are power feeding are doing it because they believe their snakes are expendable. If they get an extra few clutches out of them, who cares if they die 5-10 years earlier right, as they will be past their prime breeding age anyway?
And to say that Shane has some kind of talent for being able to breed snakes at 18 months is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard in my life. Any person who pumps their snakes from the day they hatch can do it. Most people have some respect for their animals though...
How anyone can tell another person their snake is 'healthy' just by looking at a picture of it is beyond belief. Cut the poor ******* up and have a look at his internal organs, then tell me whether it is healthy or not. So a snake lives and breeds for 10 years, so what? It could probably do it for 35 years if it isn't pumped from the day it is born.
Prolapse, kidney failure, liver failure and heart problems including heart attack, as well as egg binding and pinhead snake syndrome are all negative effects resulting from power feeding. The worst thing is, that when those that power feed have a snake die, do you think they are going to advertise the fact? Do you think that they will stop doing it because one or two snakes die in a season, when they are getting 5-6 clutches of eggs more than if they weren't doing it? I think not.
A little side note, i had 3 snakes that i could have bred at 18 months this season, including a *** hot Woma, and incredible Stimmies. Seeing as i'm not motivated by money i didn't do it, i put the snakes' long term health first and that is what we all should be doing. I don't have any issue with any person making any amount of money from this hobby, but the health of our herps should always come first.
At the end of the day, people who are power feeding are doing it because they believe their snakes are expendable. If they get an extra few clutches out of them, who cares if they die 5-10 years earlier right, as they will be past their prime breeding age anyway?
And to say that Shane has some kind of talent for being able to breed snakes at 18 months is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard in my life. Any person who pumps their snakes from the day they hatch can do it. Most people have some respect for their animals though...
How anyone can tell another person their snake is 'healthy' just by looking at a picture of it is beyond belief. Cut the poor ******* up and have a look at his internal organs, then tell me whether it is healthy or not. So a snake lives and breeds for 10 years, so what? It could probably do it for 35 years if it isn't pumped from the day it is born.
Prolapse, kidney failure, liver failure and heart problems including heart attack, as well as egg binding and pinhead snake syndrome are all negative effects resulting from power feeding. The worst thing is, that when those that power feed have a snake die, do you think they are going to advertise the fact? Do you think that they will stop doing it because one or two snakes die in a season, when they are getting 5-6 clutches of eggs more than if they weren't doing it? I think not.
A little side note, i had 3 snakes that i could have bred at 18 months this season, including a *** hot Woma, and incredible Stimmies. Seeing as i'm not motivated by money i didn't do it, i put the snakes' long term health first and that is what we all should be doing. I don't have any issue with any person making any amount of money from this hobby, but the health of our herps should always come first.
hazzard
Very Well-Known Member
M
MrBredli
Guest
Hazz, that's not what i meant. I meant i could be unhealthy and still do the normal things (i.e. live and breed) but it wouldn't be until later on when i died at an early age that you would see how unhealthy i actually was. I wasn't comparing eating unhealthily to eating excessively. Sorry for not being clearer.
Geez MrBredli, that's quite interesting.
One of the paragrahs in your reply states, along the lines of "pumping their snakes so they breed at 18 months is the most rediculous thing you have heard in your life" and those that do breed their animals at 18 months know you do have to pump your animals to get them there.BUT, on a side note, you have 3 snakes that could have bred at 18 months of age......:?. Yet, according to you, you have RESPECT for your snakes and wouldn't pump them just to breed them at that age. Whether you chose to breed them or not is irrelevant, the fact is if they are big enough to breed, then you have Skaarfed them, or else, they wouldn't be at breeding size.
On the other hand, maybe you just think they are at breeding size but don't really know......:?
M
MrBredli
Guest
On the flip side, there is no 'scientific' evidence to suggest that it doesn't. But there are countless scattered reports from various sources that say it has caused problems with their snakes. The problem is, that not every snake that is overfed is going to drop dead at 12 months, so how does one provide proof? Only a case here and a case there seems to make it to the surface. You can bet your ass people like Shane will not disclose the amount of complications they have (if any), they will always say their snakes are in the best of health.
Put simply, powerfed snakes have more health complications than those that aren't. Simply because no scientific studies have been done doesn't mean there isn't a problem. That's like saying the boiling water isn't hot because i haven't put a thermometer in there yet to measure the temperature. The study you are currently doing would never have been started if not for the thousands of stories of health problems caused by overfeeding from around the world. If there wasn't a problem it quite simply wouldn't be a topic anyone would feel the need to discuss.
M
MrBredli
Guest
Geez MrBredli, that's quite interesting.
BUT, on a side note, you have 3 snakes that could have bred at 18 months of age......:?. Yet, according to you, you have RESPECT for your snakes and wouldn't pump them just to breed them at that age. Whether you chose to breed them or not is irrelevant, the fact is if they are big enough to breed, then you have Skaarfed them, or else, they wouldn't be at breeding size.
On the other hand, maybe you just think they are at breeding size but don't really know......:?
Ummm... could have bred if i had pumped them mate....
Ummm... could have bred if i had pumped them mate....
Oh I see, sorry my mistake.:shock: You see, I read it that they COULD have bred, assuming that if you had paired them up and attempted to breed them. But in fact they are not up to size, so therefore they WOULD not have bred if you wanted them to as they are not big enough. Bit of a difference, but all in the way it is taken. You see I could have bred my olives at 18 months too, but I didn't either.
hazzard
Very Well-Known Member
I have never said it doesn't although scientific proof is required MR B, The old theory of N=1 (sample size) doesn't stack up, no conclusions can be drawn from this as a direct link to power feeding! To be statistically conclusive is how one prooves it. You need a minimum of 6 samples per treatment group to determine anything statistically in biological studies.
As i said earlier the pythons in the fed to refusal group haven't dropped dead, but simply have begun to regulate their own feed intake. Obviously i can't recommend a accurate feeding rate, but hopefully using CP's as an indicator species we will be able to get a handle on what is happening!
M
MrBredli
Guest
Oh I see, sorry my mistake.:shock: You see, I read it that they COULD have bred, assuming that if you had paired them up and attempted to breed them. But in fact they are not up to size, so therefore they WOULD not have bred if you wanted them to as they are not big enough. Bit of a difference, but all in the way it is taken. You see I could have bred my olives at 18 months too, but I didn't either.
Of course you could have, and then people would have bowed before you and they would say geez that hugsta is amazing, how on earth did he breed his snakes at 18 months. He must be a genius like Shane Scarff.
The point i'm trying to make (although not very clearly it would seem) is that if i had've pumped the 3 snakes for the 6 months prior to cooling, i could have ended up with 3 clutches of eggs valued at $5-7k. I won't do it because the snakes' long term health comes first with me. It doesn't with people like Shane.
hazzard
Very Well-Known Member
M
MrBredli
Guest
That's what i'm saying Hazz. Because there hasn't been any actual studies, all we have to go on are different single reports coming in from all over the place. It doesn't make it conclusive, but it has to count for something. There's enough reports out there to make you guys do the study you're currently doing, and that should also be enough to make most people say, "hang on this, might not be the best thing for me to be doing to my snakes."
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