Zebra Carpets

Discussion in 'Australian Snakes' started by nintendont, Aug 20, 2013.

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  1. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    Djbowker,-
    Read on to other posts mate you missed the point completely.
    Not really ever worth the comment.
     
  2. Djbowker

    Djbowker Active Member

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    Was simply remarking on your posts about lack of interest of his jags, and how long they talk to sell.
     
  3. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    anyones jags mate, that was the point.
    Im over all this, be nice or dont bother.
     
  4. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Things just settled down on this thread and I think that progress was made in the feud between purists and jag/cross breeders so no need to bring it back up.
     
  5. AmazingMorelia

    AmazingMorelia Not so new Member

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    Unfortunatly the vast majority of "Morph" breeders don't keep their lines pure. We arnt talking about someone who breeds Albinos or Hypos, we are talking about people who cross breed Jags with Inlands, with Darwins, with Jungles, with Diamonds, even with GTPs and RSPs. The term "Morph Breeder" has been hijacked by those that just cross breed. I breed "Morphs". I breed Hypos, and reduced patterns, and Albinos etc. But I don't cross breed.
    So I read your comments as "People who cross breed their animals love their pure animals and will always keep them pure", which makes no sense.
    Im not attacking anyone who cross breeds, what people do is between them and their regulatory body.
     
  6. FAY

    FAY Guest

    So, are you saying that these breeders would NEVER have a PURE pair that they would breed and sell the offspring in spite of using one of them to cross breed when they wanted to...is that what you are saying?? That every pure bred they owned they would never breed pure again?? I know a lot of jag/morph breeders who still breed pure as well. They do not cross breed everything..
    Yes, maybe I worded that a bit wrong, but I am sure you knew exactly what I meant..
     
  7. Retic

    Retic Almost Legendary

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    The vast majority of breeders I know that breed 'crosses' are also extremely proud of their pure lines, the assertion that morph breeders dont breed pure animals is quite frankly absurd and seems to have no basis in fact. Unfortunately just more scaremongering.
     
  8. SpilotaFreak78

    SpilotaFreak78 Well-Known Member

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    Im on both sides, both for pures and crosses, considering I own both. So anyone going to start talking about Zebras again anytime?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  9. AmazingMorelia

    AmazingMorelia Not so new Member

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    That's a straw man argument. I have never said people who breed crosses don't also have pure animals in their collections. I am not sure how someone would pull that from my statements. I said the comment that people who breed crosses always keep their animals pure was rather strange. Faye said it was not written the best way, so that's fine.

    When did we ever start worring what a POM thinks? lol

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    There are some serious issues with the "Morph" breeding industry that do need to be pointed out.
    Do you realize that both the JAG and Zebras have been smuggled into Australia, and this is where these bloodlines come from. Are you ok with that? Do you think those who are involved with it should be included as another loving member of the Herp community? Do you know that bringing in these smuggled animals can introduce new virus's and diseases into our country? Do you think the people who do this should be outcasts, as well as criminals? The reality is by making all these smuggled morphs acceptable and by defending them you only make the practice of smuggling morphs into the country more viable.
    Do you have an issue with seeing animals suffering from Neuro? If so do you think we should avoid breeding them?
    There are ethical questions that do need to be asked here. To turn a blind eye is one way to deal with it.
    As the saying goes, Silence is nothing more than quiet approval.
    We don't need to attack people personally, or accuse them of things they haven't done, but honesty is needed.

    I am all for selective breeding and morphs that come from Australian collections. If I produced a scaleless Murray Darling I would breed it and keep it. If I produced a healthy Lucy I would keep it. That's not an issue, and its why I consider myself a "morph" breeder. But I don't cross sub species, and I keep away from things that I ethically don't like (Neuro).
    I see that we are just so quick to look at what they have O/S and think we are missing out by not having them. A pure Diamond python that you can prove its purity in the US is worth far more than a hot Jungle x Diamond Jag. A pure Gammon would be worth more. They would love to have our diversity of localities. But we just feel we have to breed a Jag to everything we can.
    And its interesting to note the Pure vs Cross breeding debate is actually quite hot in the US now. A lot of people in the US are sad to see the lack of pure localites in their own collections.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  10. Wing_Nut

    Wing_Nut Well-Known Member

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    Can females store sperm? Is it possible that a previous cross species breeding could influence in anyway the outcome of a subsequent pure mating and vice versa?

    I am genuinely interested in thoughts towards the possibility of this.

    Regards

    Wing_Nut
     
  11. AmazingMorelia

    AmazingMorelia Not so new Member

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    Yep its happened a few times. Not sure how it would go on a second breeding tho. Interesting question.
     
  12. Djbowker

    Djbowker Active Member

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    Wasn't trying to have a dig at you mate.
     
  13. slide

    slide Well-Known Member

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    As I caught up on the last few posts this same thought came to mind. As already said, yes it is known to happen and if for example a clutch was produced one year of say a zeb male over a pure jungle female and some sperm was retained (unknown to the breeder) then the next season a pure jungle male was then put over the pure jungle female and the offspring were all normal looking jungles, there is still a chance that the buyer may be purchasing a sib that was fathered with the zebs sperm from the previous season without either party being aware.

    Despite this hypothetical situation, considering the potential money to be made, my guess would be that the second season would be fathered by the Zeb again. But I definately see where you are going with this and it raises the issue, should the female then not be considered pure? Food for thought...

    Aaron
     
  14. ZackBeaven

    ZackBeaven Not so new Member

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    I found this pretty amusing this whole thread you have been blatantly bad mouthing animals you do not keep and quoting things from websites that cannot be found, the moment someone expresses his opinion on his breeding efforts you deny what he is saying and slam him as being "wrong on every thing" and making out that he is not a good keeper. So Mabie next time think about all these claims about these morphs you are slamming as being inferior animals that should not be bred because it can be said about what you are keeping aswell


    0.1 diamond jungle jag 1.0 diamond 1.1 classic Bredli
     
  15. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Very Well-Known Member

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    What i have said can be found very easliy, infact a jag keeper from this site has pmed me with another well known overseas site that is saying the same thing.??

    I do belive he is wrong on most of what he said, bad husbandry was probally a bit harsh, yes you are right there and i appologise for that uncalled for remark, but i also said husbandry AND OR incubation, so not a direct stab at his keeping at all, i should of put wrong husbandry for these animals not bad. Sorry again.
    As said i have had no problems with any defects at all with any albino olives that i have bred. As for the fertility issues, as said again i know exactly why people are are finding this, and it has nothing to with genetics.
    The olives i have are prodgeny from animals that came from Bedford, so the same as everone elses yet i have no issues with them. You dont find this strange or unusual.?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  16. onimocnhoj

    onimocnhoj Well-Known Member

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    Olives are harder to breed than many other Australian pythons and unlike carpet pythons, they won't breed just by putting two in the same box. I imagine this is the main reason many have trouble breeding the Albino olives. Not because they are albino, but simply because they are olives..
     
  17. AmazingMorelia

    AmazingMorelia Not so new Member

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    Not that I have any interest in Olives, but what do you need to do differently?
     
  18. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that, I think TrueBlue has Austrslia's best kept secret.
     
  19. cement

    cement Subscriber Subscriber APS Veteran

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    No, there are others with this secret. If more people paid attention to these animals in their wild form and how they survive in the wild, they would probably work it out. Its a bit sad that human nature tends to follow the easiest path with everything (the path with least resistance), because it upsets them when the guys that put in the hard yards don't give them what they want.
    And as a prior poster here mentioned that the albino is a no go where the same conditions made hets successful, it really comes down to what ISN'T being said. If you want to talk about the differences in keeping then ask the successful breeders, not the unsuccessful ones. But, this in no way garantees that they will tell you!
    There are people who watch this site but do not post who are very, very successful, and have true experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What can I say, that really is quality data.

    Hands up who cares.
     
  20. BARRAMUNDI

    BARRAMUNDI Well-Known Member

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    i think the above quote is what Fay was getting at..........

    In regards to guaranteeing whether these morph lines are pure, I see where you and others are coming from. Basically my scenario is, I bought my Zebs from the breeder as hatchos approx 18 months ago, with a solid understanding they are pure Jungle. I saw the parents, other hatchos and pics of the adults mating and eggs hatching....

    As I have known the breeder for a long time and we are good friends away from herp, I do have confidence in what he has said and shown to me......

    As the morph originated in Jungles and has been subsequently bred to Jungles I do go under the premise they(mine) are pure jungle. I do also have a non pure Jungle zeb from the same breeder and the difference visually is dramatic. Therefore giving myself further confidence they (my zebs) are pure jungle. Basically I purchased mine from the breeder with the correct permits and paper and with the understanding they were pure jungle (except for the outcross) and that is the premise I go on now.......

    But like you say I cant 100% prove they are pure, but the evidence I was presented with suggests they are......I will grab some pics of the pures and of the outcross and post up shortly.....

    Can I ask you this, do you have the same issues with the absolute majority of Gtp's in collections in Aus??????
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
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