Breeding Debate

[Wookie]

To me, a "low quality" reptile is one that doesn't look right, is not moving right, brought to me in a dirty, smelly bag by a dirty, smelly yob. A "high quality" reptile is the opposite. Whether it's a plane old coastal or high grade morph is irrelevant to me. The so called "high end" reptiles are at the high end because of their high price, not necessarily high quality. That's how I look at it.

And thats the way it should be

 

[Khagan]

Ahhh, here is a philosophical parallel; overpopulation is responsible for a global destruction of natural assets and over-breeding (of reptiles) may lead to destruction of this hobby in Oz.

The only thing 'over'breeding will (or is) destroy(ing) is the price. More being bred = more competition in price = more everyday people being able to afford an entry level reptile = large population in the hobby = the opposite of destruction. This grow in population would also = more demand for enclosures/racks/other products = more business for people with reptile related business, which also good for the hobby.

When it gets to the point where so many are being bred people can't give the hatchies away, then people in it for the wrong reasons will lose interest in doing it.

 

[Ramsayi]

For everyone who is all for cheap reptiles understand that with this cheapness comes the mentality,from some, that they are disposable pets.I mean there are people around who would much rather let a $100 pet die if it was going to cost more to get it looked after by a vet.Much easier to go out and buy another one.

 

[Waterrat]

When it gets to the point where so many are being bred people can't give the hatchies away, then people in it for the wrong reasons will lose interest in doing it.

I think that is a fundamentally wrong assumption.
So you're saying that URS, SxR, SR, etc., are in it for the wrong reasons?
If you breed and can't sell or give away the progeny, what would happen to it?
Isn't it true that anybody at the entry level can certainly afford the current prices for entry level appropriate species?
What makes you think that cheap prices will bring more people into the hobby and if so, what kind of people will they be?
I could go on and on.

 

[Dannyboi]

For everyone who is all for cheap reptiles understand that with this cheapness comes the mentality,from some, that they are disposable pets.I mean there are people around who would much rather let a $100 pet die if it was going to cost more to get it looked after by a vet.Much easier to go out and buy another one.

Totally agree. Look at Zebra Finches. $1 each you think anyone ever takes them to the vet?

 

[waruikazi]

Totally agree. Look at Zebra Finches. $1 each you think anyone ever takes them to the vet?

$1 each?!?!?! Sound like a perfect feeder animal!

 

[Dannyboi]

$1 each?!?!?! Sound like a perfect feeder animal!

Yeah $1 here through a breeder. The most I have ever payed was $4.50 (Charcoal mutation)they breed faster and easier than mice. They are just too small for a snake of a decent size.

 

[Khagan]

For everyone who is all for cheap reptiles understand that with this cheapness comes the mentality,from some, that they are disposable pets.I mean there are people around who would much rather let a $100 pet die if it was going to cost more to get it looked after by a vet.Much easier to go out and buy another one.

It doesn't matter whether it's $100 or $500, people always have and always will cheap out on vets. It's a reflection of character, not market value.

I think that is a fundamentally wrong assumption.
So you're saying that URS, SxR, SR, etc., are in it for the wrong reasons?
If you breed and can't sell or give away the progeny, what would happen to it?
Isn't it true that anybody at the entry level can certainly afford the current prices for entry level appropriate species?
What makes you think that cheap prices will bring more people into the hobby and if so, what kind of people will they be?
I could go on and on.

Those you listed are professionally ran, while they have to make a profit to be a business, they will still get business because of their reputation and people feeling safer purchasing from them cause of that. The people i were refering to are people who haven't done any hard yards breeding specific lines etc, and just decide to breed as what they think will be a get rich scheme rather than for the love of it.
The issue of not being able to sell/give away the progeny would make people think and plan out their breeding more carefully, they would have to plan for space to possibly keep the ones that aren't taken till they are taken, rather than just jumping into breeding willy nilly.

Sure, it's true people can afford a good portion of the common species now with recently seeing a lot in the $100 range, which is a good thing and how it should be.
Because not everyone is as fortunate to have X amount of money to throw around whenever they please, some of us on lower income may only be able to spare so much. What do you mean "what kind of people will they be?" That's a bit of a condescending snobbish attitude don't you think? Just cause someone doesn't earn as much money as you, doesn't mean they are any less of a credible person..

 

[waruikazi]

Sure, it's true people can afford a good portion of the common species now with recently seeing a lot in the $100 range, which is a good thing and how it should be.
Because not everyone is as fortunate to have X amount of money to throw around whenever they please, some of us on lower income may only be able to spare so much. What do you mean "what kind of people will they be?" That's a bit of a condescending snobbish attitude don't you think? Just cause someone doesn't earn as much money as you, doesn't mean they are any less of a credible person..

If you are on such a low income and can't afford a $150 snake then how are you going to afford to house it, feed it, heat it and take it to the vet?

 

[Khagan]

If you are on such a low income and can't afford a $150 snake then how are you going to afford to house it, feed it, heat it and take it to the vet?

I wasn't refering to $150 snakes as if you read i said that is how it should be..

 

[Waterrat]

What do you mean "what kind of people will they be?" That's a bit of a condescending snobbish attitude don't you think? Just cause someone doesn't earn as much money as you, doesn't mean they are any less of a credible person..

Not a all. People who enter the hobby because reptiles are cheap would be entering for the wrong reason. Would you like to associate with them (that's the only snobbish remark I make)?
I understand that not everybody can afford everything .... but should they be able to? At least there is something to look forward to in better times. The reptile hobby is not a socialist society where everybody gets everything for nothing. I wonder how the reptile hobby goes in China, Cuba or North Korea. ?????

When it gets to the point where so many are being bred people can't give the hatchies away, then people in it for the wrong reasons will lose interest in doing it.

But the low prices will drag down into the gutter the professionals and the good breeders too.

 

[Red-Ink]

Are we angry because noobs are breeding snakes?

Are we angry because noobs are breeding snake without knowledge or jumping the que of experience by asking questions on forums?

Are we angry because noobs are breeding snakes, jumping the que without knowledge, asking stupid questions in forums and over supplying the market with cheaper products?

Are we angry because noobs are breeding snakes, jumping the que without knowledge, asking stupid questions in forums, over supplying the market with cheaper products and driving other established breeder's prices down?

Are we just plain angry?????

What are we angry about... you should'nt breed because you don't have the experience to do so, but no, no,no you can't ever acquire that knowledge or experience because you cant breed... Ummm whatda?

Somebody wants too breed let them breed.. look after your own backyard. If your product is any good people will still buy them in an over supplied market... If their that good you might even have a waiting list (not directed at anyone directly just an observation)

 

[fugawi]

I think a lot of you should be less condescending towards noobs asking silly questions. We all can't have doctorates in herpetology.......sorry, hang on, most of you are breeders with years of experience (hit and miss), not fully educated, certified, with a diploma in herpetology.

Everyone needs to start somewhere.

 

[Waterrat]

Somebody wants to have a verbal diarrhea, let them have one.
Are we just plane angry? Red ink or red face?

 

[longqi]

Lets just look at any snakes in general as pets
They simply lie around most of the time
They dont sing like a canary
They wont fetch a ball for you
They dont want to be taken for a walk as exercise

So their market is limited anyway

Most people dont realise how cheap they are to maintain
How easy they are to maintain etc etc

Top quality reptiles will always sell
So its up to breeders to improve their techniques
The more experienced breeders will usually have the best animals

 

[ad]

Why do breeders encourage people to buy in pairs?

a). they get more sales as they sell 2 animals.
b). they can keep their sex ratio even so they arent stuck with only males or only females.

Any other reasons?



Why do people buy in pairs?

To breed them.


They aren't book-ends, they dont need company. Breeders know this, so why should breeders get upset that the person they just sold a pair too are going to breed them and sell offspring also?

 

[-Katana-]

Are we just plane angry?

Airport security makes me angry as well.:lol:

 

[Dannyboi]

Airport security makes me angry as well.:lol:

Not me, Its always funny having them scan your carry on bag twice because your belt buckle looks like a ninja death star.

 

[Red-Ink]

Somebody wants to have a verbal diarrhea, let them have one.
Are we just plane angry? Red ink or red face?

Not angry mate just observant....

Many a time I have seen yourself advocate the good Ol days of just trading for specimens without the involvement of money.. Cheaper reptiles will bring us closer to that situation.

 

[Waterrat]

Stop drinking that red ink it clouds your mind.