Breeding Debate
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KaotikJezta
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Yes, I know. Dog breeders and their supposed superior dogs are a bit of a sore point with me, sorry bout that.
Talk about mud slinging....at this stage I have not said a nasty word about a single person but in return I have had my age questioned, my intelligence questioned and even my own personal experience with herps questioned by the very people who wrote those arguments. Those same old arguments that have been bantered about for years (and been thrown out) by all the pet industries by elitist breeders that believe that they alone should be the sole breeders of dogs. Any of you guys been to a pedigree dog show, its the biggest bitchfest of elite breeders that completely shun anyone new. Been there, done that, got out because of the nastiness and politics.
Now to an intelligent question...Backyard breeders, same argument, different animal. If you are interested in breeding purebreeds and are just starting out, why not? I would always point out they should do their research, talk to the experts, register with the canine council and keep the animals welfare above profits. With cross breeds, I'm not against it (some beautiful mutts out there) but a high percentage of them are accidents and they probably should have their animals desexed.
Now to an intelligent question...Backyard breeders, same argument, different animal. If you are interested in breeding purebreeds and are just starting out, why not? I would always point out they should do their research, talk to the experts, register with the canine council and keep the animals welfare above profits. With cross breeds, I'm not against it (some beautiful mutts out there) but a high percentage of them are accidents and they probably should have their animals desexed.
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Pythoninfinite
Guest
Ah... I begin to see a link fugawi! I, too, have some experience with pedigree dog people, albeit limited... and limited simply because I loathed the competitive mentality that pervades these get-togethers. I suspect you are making some kind of link between dog breeders and reptile breeders? Well, let me say now that if that's the case, you are way off beam. There is no comparison.
You seem to link 'pro' (your word) reptile breeders with pedigree dog breeders - is that the case? And backyard dog breeders with 'noob' (once again, your word) reptile breeders? Not the same argument at all. I think you have spent too long in the show ring with your dogs, so it's no wonder you have a chip on your shoulder... How did you perform there as an ambassador for the dog-breeding fraternity? Did you get into disputes there too?
The same argument applies to dogs as it does to reptiles - NOBODY should breed anything unless they can guarantee good homes for them, whether they breed backyard mongrels or highly pedigreed whatevers... How many thousands of beautiful dogs are put down in this country every year because people treat them as disposable commodities.
I think this tells a story, maybe it's your attitude that needs to change. It seems you're heading the same way with the herp community.
Jamie
You seem to link 'pro' (your word) reptile breeders with pedigree dog breeders - is that the case? And backyard dog breeders with 'noob' (once again, your word) reptile breeders? Not the same argument at all. I think you have spent too long in the show ring with your dogs, so it's no wonder you have a chip on your shoulder... How did you perform there as an ambassador for the dog-breeding fraternity? Did you get into disputes there too?
The same argument applies to dogs as it does to reptiles - NOBODY should breed anything unless they can guarantee good homes for them, whether they breed backyard mongrels or highly pedigreed whatevers... How many thousands of beautiful dogs are put down in this country every year because people treat them as disposable commodities.
I think this tells a story, maybe it's your attitude that needs to change. It seems you're heading the same way with the herp community.
Jamie
H
hypochondroac
Guest
Here here.
Horses, dogs, cats, reptiles. There are crappy over competitive breeders in every single animal related hobby but i don't think the 'old hats' are discouraging new breeders so much as they are discouraging irresponsible breeders and when people don't make any attempt at even the most basic of research before posting questions it becomes fairly obvious. Some breeders start with good wholesome intentions (brains) and the finances to cater for it, others not so much. If you're a new comer and you want some advice, why not google it, buy some books and message a few different breeders before making yourself look like you don't have the mental capacity to tie your own shoe laces let alone have four hundred hatchies rely on you?
I'd like to see bearded hatchlings go for $500 each, then just maybe certain people might actually look into their requirements before buying one from a pet shop down the road on a whim.
uhmmmm can someone point me to a newb's /for sale thread/classified add who is flooding the market? i looked cant find one.
WHO DO ANY OF YOU THINK YOU ARE TELLING PEOPLE THEY CAN OR CANNOT BREED, APS trolls think they are the "herp community"
oh wait sorry my bad your doing it for the "welfare" of the animals, looking forward to seing you for sale adds next year
and uhmmmm half of these "old hats" will the majority of them wont even post on a site like this....so how would they be telling newbies not to breed in the first place...
WHO DO ANY OF YOU THINK YOU ARE TELLING PEOPLE THEY CAN OR CANNOT BREED, APS trolls think they are the "herp community"
oh wait sorry my bad your doing it for the "welfare" of the animals, looking forward to seing you for sale adds next year
and uhmmmm half of these "old hats" will the majority of them wont even post on a site like this....so how would they be telling newbies not to breed in the first place...
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I just went brain dead from reading half of this threads dribble. I can't see myself keeping snakes if I can't breed them. Not for more money, but purely for the end rewards. As for the so called noobs asking stupid questions... most will grow up and make reptile keeping their own. The smart ones are the ones that follow the advise of a seasoned breeder, do what they do, and then experiment from there.
Anyone who comes into the hobby thinking they are going to make loads of money will quickly kick them self out. Making any kind of income from reptiles is a full time job and takes passion, not just for reptiles, but for the husbandry behind it. (often involves breeding rats and mice to support the hundreds of hungry animals) Your better off sticking to your day job.
All this bitterness, jealousy and back stabbing is for kids. Why we can't get along is beyond me.
It's just a hobby, not a war zone.
Anyone who comes into the hobby thinking they are going to make loads of money will quickly kick them self out. Making any kind of income from reptiles is a full time job and takes passion, not just for reptiles, but for the husbandry behind it. (often involves breeding rats and mice to support the hundreds of hungry animals) Your better off sticking to your day job.
All this bitterness, jealousy and back stabbing is for kids. Why we can't get along is beyond me.
It's just a hobby, not a war zone.
Wild~Touch
Very Well-Known Member
It's just a hobby, not a war zone.
That makes sense ... Thank you D3
That makes sense ... Thank you D3
Snakeluvver2
Very Well-Known Member
I hate you D3pro where's my knife! 
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uhmmmmm, ahhhhh what? sorry my bad what? "old hats" Uhmm, haaaa. WHO DO ANY OF YOU THINK YOU ARE TELLING PEOPLE . uhmmmm, haaaa
Leave it till the morning, you're very tired.... and you are only 20 years old.
We could help each other big way if it wasn't for the huge chips on some people's shoulders. They must be walking lopsided. 11 pages is a long read but taking shortcuts makes some people's posts a joke.
Leave it till the morning, you're very tired.... and you are only 20 years old.
We could help each other big way if it wasn't for the huge chips on some people's shoulders. They must be walking lopsided. 11 pages is a long read but taking shortcuts makes some people's posts a joke.
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GeckoJosh
Almost Legendary
I cant be bothered typing as its my "Glass of red" time as Michael puts it lol, so il just agree with D3.
Hahahahahahhahahahah!
The Reptile Outlet
Well-Known Member
Wow...... I've just given myself a headache reading all this....... I have to comment though.
Because of the business I'm in, I personally chat with a lot of people in the hobby every day, and in my opinion, the more experienced breeder certainly tries to help the newcomer. In some instances they even learn something from the newer person too. Heck we were all new to breeding reptiles ourselves once and can remember the excitement of this, (along with the sleepless nights). I would like to think though that the advice that the more experienced breeder is offering is listened to, whether it's what we want to hear or not. They've been there, done that, and because of their experience they can quite often see if there are pitfalls ahead. We need to listen to them, and then make our own decision.
I have a few years life experience here, and I know from personal experience that if I am trying to learn something new, that it pays to listen to advice from those who have been there before me. I listen to them, and then make a decision based on the facts as to how to proceed, no matter what the subject is.
In our hobby, I believe that in most instances the more experienced breeders are offering sound, sensible advice, and need to be listened to but even more importantly, given the respect they deserve. If we don't personally agree with what they say, that's our choice, we can do whatever we want to do. However, they are the ones who have done the hard yards and are leading the way. They've earned and deserve our respect.
Cheers
Joy
Because of the business I'm in, I personally chat with a lot of people in the hobby every day, and in my opinion, the more experienced breeder certainly tries to help the newcomer. In some instances they even learn something from the newer person too. Heck we were all new to breeding reptiles ourselves once and can remember the excitement of this, (along with the sleepless nights). I would like to think though that the advice that the more experienced breeder is offering is listened to, whether it's what we want to hear or not. They've been there, done that, and because of their experience they can quite often see if there are pitfalls ahead. We need to listen to them, and then make our own decision.
I have a few years life experience here, and I know from personal experience that if I am trying to learn something new, that it pays to listen to advice from those who have been there before me. I listen to them, and then make a decision based on the facts as to how to proceed, no matter what the subject is.
In our hobby, I believe that in most instances the more experienced breeders are offering sound, sensible advice, and need to be listened to but even more importantly, given the respect they deserve. If we don't personally agree with what they say, that's our choice, we can do whatever we want to do. However, they are the ones who have done the hard yards and are leading the way. They've earned and deserve our respect.
Cheers
Joy
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I really think everyone should pump them out as quick as possible so they can replace rodents as feeders for reptiles that normally eat reptiles. Why mess around weaning them onto friendly soical animals like rats when you can just use surplus reptiles? (provided it becomes legal of course)
The best way to end the stupid debates is to make them finacially worthless through good supply so only those with a genuine interest keep them and government regulation becomes redundant for 95% or more species.
The best way to end the stupid debates is to make them finacially worthless through good supply so only those with a genuine interest keep them and government regulation becomes redundant for 95% or more species.
waruikazi
Legendary
So you see no problem with it so long as it is done properly... as long as they do their research, look after their animals and offspring etc?
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
Now there's something worth banding together about... The amount of pointless paperwork generated by keepers of the most common species is astronomical. And what purpose does it serve? It keeps government departments well staffed (not well enough in NSW!) doing a job that serves no purpose either.
I think some of the terms used to describe experienced breeders here are quite amusing... 'pros', 'old hats'... where do they come from?
Jamie
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waruikazi
Legendary
Can you just refresh our memories as to who made those arguments?
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