ls "cheap" cheap l don't think so

[CrystalMoon]

At this point in time I have bought good quality reptiles paying what I think is average price for their breed. I have chosen the more common breeds for a couple of reasons, I need experience and the more common varieties tend to be more forgiving I do want to eventually breed, but as a possible one time experience a) so I can have the purely selfish satisfaction and joy seeing my Babies have Babies B) So I can help by donating the offspring to those who would like a first time hardy snake. I dont think "cheaper" necessarily means lesser in all cases however in a lot unfortunately I think it can.... The old adage"you get what you pay for" rings true in the majority of situations. To be completely honest, I will jump for a bargin along with the next person but not in regard to cars and animals(husbands I could be persuaded ) Unless I know the breeder/vehicle. 99% of the time though I am happy to pay the price as I know how much goes into breeding quality animals(have bred dogs and horses)

 

[ingie]

I pay whatever I have to to get the animals I want. Sometimes that may be expensive, sometimes I may get a bargain. I judge the animal by the condition it is in, the look that i desire, it's ability to feed, and the condition and longevity of its parents. These things may have nothing to do with the price. People who stinge on caring for their animals can also the kind of people striving to make the biggest profit. Price and quality are certainly not linked in my book. Judge every animal on it's own merrits.

 

[Scleropages]

Cost has nothing to do with good or bad animals ,if people are not going to look after an animal it doesn't matter if it cost $50 or $500.. it's the keepers that's the prob.

 

[Beard]

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been mentioned but if someone only wants the snake as a pet and has no interest in breeding and selling then yea, cheap is cheap.

 

[Ramsayi]

You only have to look at a lot of the threads on here.What type of snake is this? How can I get my new snake to eat? What temps do I need to keep it at? etc etc.

Too many people in the hobby now only look at price and nothing else.
They do not value the extra time,effort and expense some people put into line breeding to improve colour,pattern etc.
They do not place much value on getting a well established hatchy,as long as it has a feed or two it's all good.
The do not value after sales help/advice if it is needed.

The biggest concern with cheap animals is that they will become disposable.Much easier to buy a new one than pay a vet bill if a pet reptile becomes sick.

 

[Beard]

You only have to look at a lot of the threads on here.What type of snake is this? How can I get my new snake to eat? What temps do I need to keep it at? etc etc.

Too many people in the hobby now only look at price and nothing else.
They do not value the extra time,effort and expense some people put into line breeding to improve colour,pattern etc.
They do not place much value on getting a well established hatchy,as long as it has a feed or two it's all good.
The do not value after sales help/advice if it is needed.

The biggest concern with cheap animals is that they will become disposable.Much easier to buy a new one than pay a vet bill if a pet reptile becomes sick.

Unfortunately you're all too right. But it is the same with all all other animals. Some people just see pets as a novelty that more often than not, wears off, to the detriment of the amimal.

Just look at any pet classifieds and see the enormous amount of free of cheap animals available. Then go to your local pound or RSPCA shelter.

 

[ingie]

The point is though that people with crappy animals or bad/nill advise can and do still charge heaps for the animals they sell. You can't say someone selling a snake cheap means it is a crap snake, and selling an animal for an expensive price means it is a good animal. I know breeders that sell good quality animals with a lot of effort put in and ongoing help if required - for really good prices that wouldn't be classed as 'expensive' at all. And I have seen evidence of people who know next to nothing and don't care for their animals adequately, selling animals in poor condition for top dollar.

Also - just because an animal has been kept poorly and there is no good advice and help, don't assume it is a 'crappy animal'. You could have a total idiot get an absolute bargain for a breeding pair of animals, neglect them, breed them, put no time into the babies and then sell them dirt cheap to get rid of them, or top dollar to make a quick buck - and they are still top quality animals from fantastic lineages.

 

[richardsc]

pffffft,so called cheap or more expensive ,they all deserve the same upkeep,and you will find plenty of cheap animals being way better cared for than expensive ones,look at how the markets died in the **** with thinks like albino darwins and green tree pythons,even they can be hard to move,hence the price drop,i dont mind a bargain animal,and to some a cheapy is every bit as nice a looking animal as some funky colored one,i prefer normal olives to albinos for instance,if i wanted a long yellow thing id invest in a pool noodle,people dont like half of these animals for there looks,its the profits they could make selling them and the elitist stigma that owning them gains,at the end of the day they are all the same

 

[Batanga]

Here is my take on this subject.
I was recently talking to a member on this forum about certain people selling average looking reptiles for top dollar prices, I claimed that I didn't see how this was justified and he replied with one of the most naive responses I have ever heard which was "I would rather buy from someone who I know has a clean collection and good breeding stock"
Now my question here is how exactly would any person know if a collection is "clean" or that the stock is amazing? I don't see any large breeder ever coming out and admitting to an outbreak of disease or sickness publicly, nor do I see them coming out and calling the quality of their snakes "*****house" in a classified ad. So labelling another persons collection who you know only through an internet forum is naive.

I guess what I'm saying is people seem to buy based on what will sell or what the latest fad is at the moment rather than buying reptiles which appeal to them personally. Claims like "these produce some of the best womas around" always make me laugh a little, don't buy in to a sales pitch.....buy what you like and you will find the hobby most enjoyable!

 

[ingie]

I don't find that naive at all. I find it very wise. I myself aim to buy from people who fit that description. Someone with good breeding stock could for example be someone who has been breeding the same pair for many years with fantastic results and high hatch rates. They may have kept track of babies people have purchased over the years, and received great feedback. As with all animals, there are variations in individual quality that go beyond markings and colour.

Someone with a 'clean collection' could be a person who has had a one way closed collection for many years and takes hygiene seriously. The longer you are in the reptile scene the more you get to know about how different people run their collections and who keeps what. Perhaps the member you spoke to knows some breeders who fit that description and they are happy to buy from them over random adds in the classifieds.

I have found a few good breeders that I am really confident to receive quality healthy animals from, and I would rather go to them any day for whatever species they may keep, than buy from every Tom, Dick and Harry around. When I first started keeping reptiles I didn't think like that. However, if you are really serious about the hobby long term, and are going to invest a lot of time and finances into it, it is worthwhile to consider these things.

 

[damian83]

Where is the relationship between price and quality? What is a sub standard animal, colour, markings, lineage? Sounding very elitist to me, only an expensive pet is a good pet?

So are you saying a 100 dollar pound dog for a pet is no good that you have to buy a 1500 dollar with papers? Do you put your kids back inside their mothers if there ugly babies?
Or are you asking if other people think like that.

 

[littlemay]

So are you saying a 100 dollar pound dog for a pet is no good that you have to buy a 1500 dollar with papers? Do you put your kids back inside their mothers if there ugly babies?
Or are you asking if other people think like that.

Bingo

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

So are you saying a 100 dollar pound dog for a pet is no good that you have to buy a 1500 dollar with papers? Do you put your kids back inside their mothers if there ugly babies?
Or are you asking if other people think like that.

All human babies are ugly little wrinkled things anyway. I only produce snake babies now, they are much prettier.LOL.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Batanga]

I don't find that naive at all. I find it very wise. I myself aim to buy from people who fit that description. Someone with good breeding stock could for example be someone who has been breeding the same pair for many years with fantastic results and high hatch rates. They may have kept track of babies people have purchased over the years, and received great feedback. As with all animals, there are variations in individual quality that go beyond markings and colour.

You think it's wise to label a collection clean when you only know someone's claims and reputation over a forum? Never Physically seeing their setups, stock, quarantine protocols etc........I think that goes far beyond naive.

Someone with a 'clean collection' could be a person who has had a one way closed collection for many years and takes hygiene seriously. The longer you are in the reptile scene the more you get to know about how different people run their collections and who keeps what. Perhaps the member you spoke to knows some breeders who fit that description and they are happy to buy from them over random adds in the classifieds. [/QUOTE]

Again, how do you know this person takes "hygiene seriously" and how they run their collections? It's not like anyone is going to post pictures of snakes in filthy tubs or show reptiles in bad condition. You are basing it completely on assumption unless you know them personally and have seen their setups. The member I spoke to used to keep beardies in rat cages so I tend to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I have found a few good breeders that I am really confident to receive quality healthy animals from, and I would rather go to them any day for whatever species they may keep, than buy from every Tom, Dick and Harry around. When I first started keeping reptiles I didn't think like that. However, if you are really serious about the hobby long term, and are going to invest a lot of time and finances into it, it is worthwhile to consider these things.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed the point of my post because you seem to have gone on a tangent in replying to what I wrote as nothing you said is really relevant in response.

 

[-Peter]

If you intend to keep animals longterm and breed them with the intention of selling the offspring then you should heed the advice of the initial post. If you want a pet and if you want cheap, go for it. If you decide you dont want it anymore you will probably have trouble giving it away. Theres a lot of snakes around. Thats why you see so many standard animals with fancy value added names.

 

[ingie]

Batanga,

How is what I said anymore of a tangent than what you said? LOL. I didn't realise I was limited to replying strictly to you and not able to add any independent thoughts. You need to take some deep breaths

I never mentioned anything about buying from breeders I didn't know personally and have reason to trust. If you re read what I wrote i said I do personally know people with such collections that I like to buy from, and suggested that perhaps the person you spoke to did as well. How do I know this about my breeders? Well I dated one of them for quite some time and he taught me much of what I know on the topics haha. Is that enough?

 

[wokka]

It sounds as though there is an opportunity to buy cheap animlas and to double theprice therby making them quality animals. lol

 

[damian83]

Bingo

If it's what you want pay for it. If you can't afford it don't get it. Or get a loan or pay it off.

Lol

All human babies are ugly little wrinkled things anyway. I only produce snake babies now, they are much prettier.LOL.

Cheers
Ian

Are you calling my girls ugly punk:x

 

[littlemay]

-

 

[connors81]

First Time Byer

I bought my first snake 8 months ago, first I did my research on breeds, hardiness, temperment and size using a lot of site (including this one) I decided on a Bredli and set about making enquiries, I found a few avliable and went out to have a look first person (lets not call them a breeder) I went in asked to have a look "can I hold the hatchie" "no sorry just had 1st feed may throw up" """warning bells"""" "can I have a look at the parents" "no prob mate" took me to a room with two snakes housed together in a 4x2x2 enclosure "can I hold one" "nah mate sorry they don't like people" I said thanks but no thanks and left. This person was selling more expensive ones!!!! Next breeder I went to showed me feed and shed records had all defecations marked, let me hold all the bubs and both parents. I picked the cheaper one not because she was cheap but because she was the calmest and I have an 8 year old that loves snakes, she wasn't cheap because she was nasty and not advertised as such but because the rest of the clutch were hypo and she was the most classic of all markings. I don't think cheap means nasty but I think there are "breeders"out there just to make a buck and there are people who honestly love their snakes and bred!!!!!!!