norris
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that you will keep the mass of food they each eat the same?
Feeding Snakes drumsticks, chicken necks, etc
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Wow guys, settle down :lol: I just wanted to see if anyone had already tried it, to confirm my assumption that it hadn't been done. I'm not planning a high budget, intensively measured experiment, I'm just going to answer the question: "Does muscle, bone, fat and skin contain everything a snake needs to be happy and healthy?". I'm going to do that by feeding nothing but muscle, bone, fat and skin to snakes during the critical times in their life cycle (growth and reproduction if I get that far). The question "Can they be maintained alive and well?" Has already been answered, at least in the short term. Baden's results with getting one to produce healthy eggs twice is the best evidence I've seen so far. The real cruncher will be seeing if they can be raised from babies to adults.
I'm not going to keep highly detailed growth records, I'm not going to carefully measure feeds, I'm not going to work out to the tenth decimal place how much better or worse whole rodents are or compare chicken to beef.
I refuse to condone keeping snakes (or even cats despite my hatred of them) on a vegan diet. Even if it was keeping them healthy I'd object on ethical grounds. The pain and trauma I would suffer due to disgust would in my opinion be more of a problem than whatever benefits the vegan crap was providing. Jokes aside, I'd be interested to see if it was possible with a typical snake without artificially synthesising all the necessary proteins.
Anyway, the question I wanted this thread to answer has been answered, so run amok, speculate, chat and flame :lol:
I'm not going to keep highly detailed growth records, I'm not going to carefully measure feeds, I'm not going to work out to the tenth decimal place how much better or worse whole rodents are or compare chicken to beef.
I refuse to condone keeping snakes (or even cats despite my hatred of them) on a vegan diet. Even if it was keeping them healthy I'd object on ethical grounds. The pain and trauma I would suffer due to disgust would in my opinion be more of a problem than whatever benefits the vegan crap was providing. Jokes aside, I'd be interested to see if it was possible with a typical snake without artificially synthesising all the necessary proteins.
Anyway, the question I wanted this thread to answer has been answered, so run amok, speculate, chat and flame :lol:
The Devil
Very Well-Known Member
Solar17 has a female BHP that has never eaten anything else other than chicken. Day old chicks when little and for the last few years, chicken drumsticks.
She must be about 6 y.o. and it looks like this year will be her third year in a row with eggs.
I've been using drumsticks on jungles, diamonds, bredli and BHP for years.
Usually when rats are getting scarce I do one feed with rats and the next feed with drumsticks.
Interestingly last year with one of my bhp girls she had half swallowed a small rat when I threw in a drumstick.
She spat the rat out, ate the drumstick then went back to the rat. No guessing what she would prefer.
She must be about 6 y.o. and it looks like this year will be her third year in a row with eggs.
I've been using drumsticks on jungles, diamonds, bredli and BHP for years.
Usually when rats are getting scarce I do one feed with rats and the next feed with drumsticks.
Interestingly last year with one of my bhp girls she had half swallowed a small rat when I threw in a drumstick.
She spat the rat out, ate the drumstick then went back to the rat. No guessing what she would prefer.
Sdaji,
I like the idea of this experiment. Can I suggest another parallel one?
In addition to seeing how these different diet affect the snakes long term health, could you observe differences to faecal matter-frequency,consistency and odour come to mind. I'm thinking that if a complete diet of whatever works out fine for health but it stinks the house out and the substrate needs to be changed every day then it may have limited use.
Bob
I like the idea of this experiment. Can I suggest another parallel one?
In addition to seeing how these different diet affect the snakes long term health, could you observe differences to faecal matter-frequency,consistency and odour come to mind. I'm thinking that if a complete diet of whatever works out fine for health but it stinks the house out and the substrate needs to be changed every day then it may have limited use.
Bob
Sure, I'll keep an eye on that. I'd already paid a bit of attention, but the early results don't really speak for the whole situation...
Currently I'm using animal portions with a relatively high bone content. Consequently the faeces comes out looking very different from normal. Far more shaped and less sloppy, a little powdery and certainly less smelly. I have little doubt that the faecal matter from animals on this sort of diet will be less offensive. I don't think you need more than about half a dozen feeds in a row to work that one out. I expect when they're larger and eating a meat:bone ratio which is about the same as a whole animal's, the faeces will be more similar to regular faeces, but still 'nicer'.
Currently I'm using animal portions with a relatively high bone content. Consequently the faeces comes out looking very different from normal. Far more shaped and less sloppy, a little powdery and certainly less smelly. I have little doubt that the faecal matter from animals on this sort of diet will be less offensive. I don't think you need more than about half a dozen feeds in a row to work that one out. I expect when they're larger and eating a meat:bone ratio which is about the same as a whole animal's, the faeces will be more similar to regular faeces, but still 'nicer'.
I think feeding tofu to carnivorus animals could be a good way of farming more differant tasty animals in a more sustainable way. We can take vegan technology and use it against them :lol:
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Yes death to soya bean. I agree.
Are death adders prone to fatty liver disease if fed fatty food like bhp's?
Are death adders prone to fatty liver disease if fed fatty food like bhp's?
Black-headed Pythons aren't usually all that fatty. You could keep a Death Adder healthy on an exclusive diet of them.
pythonmum
Very Well-Known Member
Regarding the faecal consistency when on lots of bone, it sounds much like what happens in my dogs when they have a lot of bone. Our old rottie used to "**** bricks' after a big lamb bone.
I'm very interested to hear that many people supplement this way. I'll try it when my Morelia get larger. With regard to chemicals in meat, you can always buy organic meat products. Chickens are commonly given drugs to control intestinal parasites, but these are removed from the feed during the 'finishing' stage. I don't worry about it for myself or my animals.
I'm very interested to hear that many people supplement this way. I'll try it when my Morelia get larger. With regard to chemicals in meat, you can always buy organic meat products. Chickens are commonly given drugs to control intestinal parasites, but these are removed from the feed during the 'finishing' stage. I don't worry about it for myself or my animals.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
And vice versa! You got me with that lateral, but what I was wondering was, oh never mind...
Hi Sdaji et al,
I've already fed my Diamond Python chicken legs with success, and will continue doing this as a supplement to rats, because I believe that a variable diet can only be beneficial.
When I fed the chicken leg, I cut off half the bone because I thought that long, thick thighbone may be too much to handle. However, I've since been told that the potentially sharp bone edge at the cut is likely to be more dangerous.
What does everyone think? Leave the thighbone as it is or cut it down to size?
Cheers,
Nic
I've already fed my Diamond Python chicken legs with success, and will continue doing this as a supplement to rats, because I believe that a variable diet can only be beneficial.
When I fed the chicken leg, I cut off half the bone because I thought that long, thick thighbone may be too much to handle. However, I've since been told that the potentially sharp bone edge at the cut is likely to be more dangerous.
What does everyone think? Leave the thighbone as it is or cut it down to size?
Cheers,
Nic
Frank
Active Member
Do you cut down a rat to size if it is too long? if not then I would leave the thigh bone alone.
Also does anybody inject their snake feeds, rodents,cicken with mutton bird oil. if so what quantity
cheers
NicG: I've fed all sorts of things to snakes 'with success'. Because people like yourself have had 'success' feeding them things like legs, I want to test if that type of food is okay for a staple diet rather than just a supplement or a half of it. People can eat chocolate cake without it doing them too much harm, they could even eat it exclusively for a while without it doing them too much harm, but in the long run it wouldn't be good. The most critical times for nutrient requirement are during growth and reproduction. If I can get snakes to grow up and reproduce without any trouble, I'll know that that sort of food is appropriate as an entire diet, and there are certainly no concerns about it being used as a supplement. Smoking a few cigarettes and not dying or getting sick might seem to indicate that they're not unhealthy, doing many things in the short term doesn't mean a lot.
I've never used mutton bird oil and am really not fond of it. Many people have had problems and I don't see the benefits being worth the risk, expense and hassle. About 10 years ago I fed steak to snakes and put calcium and multivitamin powder on it, but whether or not it mattered I can not say. Yes, that was supermarket meat and those snakes continued to thrive and breed for years after (I think all are still alive actually), but it wasn't done as an exclusive diet over many years starting from hatching.
I've never used mutton bird oil and am really not fond of it. Many people have had problems and I don't see the benefits being worth the risk, expense and hassle. About 10 years ago I fed steak to snakes and put calcium and multivitamin powder on it, but whether or not it mattered I can not say. Yes, that was supermarket meat and those snakes continued to thrive and breed for years after (I think all are still alive actually), but it wasn't done as an exclusive diet over many years starting from hatching.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/rhd-with-a-mouthful-90584
Some more food suggestions that seem to be working Sdaji, if you are looking for other alternatives
Some more food suggestions that seem to be working Sdaji, if you are looking for other alternatives
It might be worth mentioning that in Australia all comercially sold chicken is free of added hormones. Any hormones present are good old fashioned chicken hormones made by the cells of the chicken itself. Antibiotics are added to a lot of chook food, but that shouldn't make the chicken any less safe to eat.
Given how safe supermarket chickens are for humans to eat, I doubt there is any reason to worry about the threat to snakes from any chemicals in the chicken.
And before I am accused of being a pro chicken industry plant, I don't eat chicken myself (but only because I don't like it).
Given how safe supermarket chickens are for humans to eat, I doubt there is any reason to worry about the threat to snakes from any chemicals in the chicken.
And before I am accused of being a pro chicken industry plant, I don't eat chicken myself (but only because I don't like it).
:lol: :lol: :lol:
For a moment I was thinking "Didn't you read the thread? Ugh!", but seeing it was you I figured I'd check the link :lol:
Thanks, I'll keep paper and couches in mind if I run out of tails and other offcuts! :lol:
murrayanddig
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one thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned here is the gut contents of the prey animals. a lot of carnivores get their vegies by eating animals that have already eaten them. so a snake eating a rabbit gets all the grain and grass and carrots that are in the gut. it might be easy to get the snake to eat a chicken leg, but harder to get it to eat a carrot (not already chewed up and inside a chicken gut). if the animals in the experiment don't do so well in the long term, it could be trace elements and stuff that would be associated with the vegetable component of their prey.
W
wokka
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Smoking a few cigarettes and not dying or getting sick might seem to indicate that they're not unhealthy, doing many things in the short term doesn't mean a lot.
So Sdaji, do you only let your snakes smoke short term or are you experimenting with habitual smoking.
So Sdaji, do you only let your snakes smoke short term or are you experimenting with habitual smoking.
murrayanddig: It hasn't been mentioned here, but it's completely covered already. Plants are not essential in the diet of any Australian snake, and almost certainly not in any snake at all. You can feed a snake exclusively on carnivorous animals, that's nothing unusual, in fact, in the wild it is often the norm. The subject comes up from time to time, but there is nothing to it.
wokka: I'm not deliberately experimenting with smoking, although I don't enforce any strict rules on them. As with drinking, illicit sex, viewing of adult movies, etc etc, I leave the choice up to each snake. A liberal attitude is something I feel important in maintaining a high morale in the colonies.
wokka: I'm not deliberately experimenting with smoking, although I don't enforce any strict rules on them. As with drinking, illicit sex, viewing of adult movies, etc etc, I leave the choice up to each snake. A liberal attitude is something I feel important in maintaining a high morale in the colonies.
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