Frustration!

[moosenoose]

Moosenoose, there have been prosecutions for killing snakes, some bloke even got prosecuted for killing a roo out in western Qld. Even though many laws are stupid and often ignored, they are sometimes enforced. Whether you are moving a garden skink out of your house without being a qualified animal relocator or taking a bluetounge for 'show and tell', you are breaking the law and that is bad

.

I am a very bad man :lol: Shoot me!

 

[Dar1stheory]

Laws are Laws and we have no choice except at the polling booths

:lol: Bwahahahahaha, yeah, like we have a choice there...

They bring in taxes and laws before they are even passed through our official system (Alcopops), there is nothing you or I can do to stop the machine while remaining the peaceful, lazy and rightfully fearful nation we currently are...

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

 

[Daryl_H]

strait up snake handler you have a vested interest in this debate ie show and tell with snakes and lizards means that class wont need to book you next week for what ever fee you charge cause show and tell is free...... is this your real motive banning show and tell? if so i say baaaaah humbug to you good sir!!

 

[Andrais]

hahha did i do something really really wrong taking muffin to school last friday! :shock:
I was only trying to show other kids that snakes arn't bad creatures, and they are quite harmless when tame. All the kids loved it! everyone was looking at her and stuff and even the people that didn't like snakes were really interested. Of course i let her have breaks and stuff, to be left in peace and quiet, and everyone was really interested by her presence. She didn't get stressed or anything, handled all the attention quite well i think.
I reckon that 5 people in my home group on friday morning ran out in terror! and started carrying on a raving that there was a snake blah blah blah. By the start of the first lesson they were volenteering to hold her :lol:
they thought she was cute cause she is so small! ahhh cute snakes work everytime.
The truth is that childern these days are curious, and even is they swear that they hate snakes and reptiles they are always interested by them. It just takes the right moment and the right understanding for them, a 10 min chat about how safe she is and there hooked!
If breaking the law allows me to get my message accross to people about snakes and reptiles i would rather risk that then having people hate them for no reason.

anybody breeding spotteds sometime? i got a list of kids that want one! :lol:

 

[snakehandler]

Again read the original post, show and tell is not the issue, it is demonstrations at schools and public groups such as scouts with live animals that I am talking about...I can tell you now that a child with a blue tongue or bearded will not give the same information as any demonstrator that will attend the school.....demonstrators pay more for permits to have the right to do public demonstrations......the private keeper needs to remember what their permit conditions are.....perhaps we should petition that we pay the same as everyone else for our permits....perhaps that would be fair!!!!

 

[moosenoose]

Just to add to the horror I've even relocated a few animals for friends....should I be dragged over the coals for this also?? Hypocrisy would be rife if the answer is yes! I've had plenty of these same friends pop a shovel through a few snakes before I said to them "give me a ring". I won't change my ways because some shiny-pants snake-phobic bureaucrat in a place of authority dictates to me that it's not an option.......8) By rights I should be able to do this without fear of prosecution as I charge nothing for it!

So let me see; just let householders do whatever they like to the snakes in my area without any repercussions, or let me relocate the snakes (as the DSE or any of these other clowns aren't paying my medical bills or income protection) and not care about the repercussions and do something positive. It's a no-brainer!

I do agree regarding the topic of demonstrations though, but not a simple show and tell. Horses for courses.

 

[Serpentes_15]

People who give false information at demonstrations, that are not covered by permits, leave themselves open to slaughter before a jury. If a child that was subjected to such a demonstration is bitten by a venomous snake than the demonstrator is liable. Infact it doesn't even have to be false information. At the end of the day those individuals have never gone before an ethics committee, have never been made to meet certain standards and thus are not qualified to attempt in the education and awareness of wildlife.

Remember that children don't always define between when they can or cannot do something. It is best that professionals be the one to teach them this remembering that reptile demonstrotors often have experience in working with children and are deemed qualified to do so.

If the worst case scenario occured than everything positive that the herpetological community has worked to instill in public opinion will be for nothing.

The general public allready stereotype herpers enough as it is so how about we allow a little more proffessionalism and a little less amateurism in the industry. Common sense tells me that this would ultimately result in increased acceptance of herpetofauna and less public outcry against irresponsible pet keepers.

P.S. If people really think that educational institutions would ever think of substituting educational programs with amateur displays than you need to wake up and smell the roses. If they want an educational display they will get a professional regardless of having freebies available. Any institution that does otherwise risks breaching Occupational Health and Safety and is feeding students inferior knowledge. Demonstrators aren't worried about losing work to these inferior amateur displays. It must be frustrating for them however to work so hard at educating the public on the facts, dispelling the myths, and promoting awareness that minimise conflicts with reptiles and nagative media, only to have someone spread a bunch of crap that will be soaked up by the general public and spat out through the local media.

If your not a qualified doctor you dont demonstrate first aid so the same kind of ideology fits across the board. Reptiles can pose a risk so the message must be the right one, the first time, for the reptiles and the general publics sake.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Just wondering what qualifications do you need to get demo permits?

 

[Carpetpythonmorphs]

In NSW, I believe the Exhibited Animals Protection Act has an exemption for animals held legally to be allowed to be used for "one off" demonstrations in schools, scouts etc.

 

[CodeRed]

Just wondering what qualifications do you need to get demo permits?

persistence when applying

 

[CodeRed]

In NSW, I believe the Exhibited Animals Protection Act has an exemption for animals held legally to be allowed to be used for "one off" demonstrations in schools, scouts etc.

Thats pretty much the info my wife was given too

 

[Firepac]

Its more the information that these people are giving to the kids that worries me, just because you hold a Recreational permit doesn't mean you have any knowledge or expertise. Mind you just because you have a Demonstrators Permit doesn;t necessarily mean you have the knowledge either.... only a few weeks ago I was called to pick up an 'Eastern Brown' that someone had caught and wanted me to relocate. He told me he had travelled the country for over 20 years giving snake demonstrations ..... when I finally got to see the snake it was a Yellow-faced Whip snake!! The guy wouldn't believe me and insisted it was an EB until I just put my hand in he bucket and picked it up. Should have seen his face LOL.... Priceless

 

[crotalus1]

I think "Snakehandler" has it all wrong.
If a demonstrator can't compete with kids doing "show and tell" with their own pets, I think it's time the demonstrator raised their standards and their own lack of business problems would evaporate.
I recall speaking to a teacher recently who said that after seeing the last unnamed licenced demonstrator attacking innocuous snakes with tongs in the classroom, she'd never risk having a demonstrator in class again.
She said sending the wrong message of brutalising snakes was the last thing she wanted kids to see and said she preferred a show and tell with a bit of care and compassion anyday!

 

[Serpentes_15]

oh hey he who must not be named and mutilates elapids for profit. I think its time you made a new alter ego, i think where catching on to this one. What were the standards that your bussiness has again? I think i recall hearing some very negative feedback on a certain demonstrators free handling of elapids. Gee some demonstrators that i will not name even have told children off for getting bitten by a snake thats meant to be displayed in a safe way.

If certain demonstrators that i will not name had any understanding of animal ethics commitees and the way they worked than they would be aware that Gentle Giant tongs cause no dameage to snakes when used properly. only way to hurt a snake with GG's is to hit them with it.

I use them and there far more humane than backyard surgery by people who may not necessarily have any scientific let alone veterinary training.

No one cares what you think mr crotalus so stop wasting our time on slanderous crap and make something of your own time.

 

[Hemiaspis]

oh hey he who must not be named and mutilates elapids for profit. I think its time you made a new alter ego, i think where catching on to this one. What were the standards that your bussiness has again? I think i recall hearing some very negative feedback on a certain demonstrators free handling of elapids. Gee some demonstrators that i will not name even have told children off for getting bitten by a snake thats meant to be displayed in a safe way.

If certain demonstrators that i will not name had any understanding of animal ethics commitees and the way they worked than they would be aware that Gentle Giant tongs cause no dameage to snakes when used properly. only way to hurt a snake with GG's is to hit them with it.

I use them and there far more humane than backyard surgery by people who may not necessarily have any scientific let alone veterinary training.

No one cares what you think mr crotalus so stop wasting our time on slanderous crap and make something of your own time.

Couldn't have put it any better myself

 

[snakehandler]

Crotalus1, welcome back RAY....more false claims...provide proof!

 

[hashbean]

back to the topic
theres no way you or any one can stop a kid wanting to bring his pet into school for
show and tell/demonstration .
if that means you lose money because of it
then i would say mabe a oversight with your buisness plan ??

 

[Dar1stheory]

If your not a qualified doctor you dont demonstrate first aid so the same kind of ideology fits across the board.

Oh dear... The rest of your rant might have held some credibility til you let this one slip...

 

[snakehandler]

If you take the time to read the original post and several posts since, I have stated that show and tell is not the issue....make sure you read the posts before you comment.

 

[cris]

Not Ray, but work for him and must say that attacking a herp icon at every turn reflects more on you than him.
Again, I state that demonstrators have nothing to fear from kids doing "show and tell" so long as the demonstrators have a standard high enough to make people want to book them and pay for their services.
An established reputation spanning decades would help as well, but many of the dozens of new outfits are making a good go of things.

He is not complaining about show and tell, but those doing more organised demonstrations without a permit. As far as i know 'you guys' actually held a large part of this market due to an legal advantage that allowed the public handle Elapids and do displays in shopping centers etc. although that changed sometime recently didnt it?

Either way the point behind the thread is saying if its legal, its all good. So your all good from as far as the whinge in this thread is concerned.