If an animal dies after purchase?? Your thoughts Please

[Eylandt]

This is the reason why it is suggested to have ANY animal you purchase VET checked immediately. I havent bred any herps yet (only cats and dogs in the past) but I sure as hell wouldnt refund someone after a week let alone 2 weeks. 48 hours is plenty of time to establish an animals health. If you want to be cheap and go against what is advised after purchasing any animal then its your own fault if your animal dies of an illness.

 

[Gobo]

i bought a tree snake for $750 from a local pet shop (yes i know thats where i went wrong- but they are so hard to come across) it died 10 days after purchase and upon having an autopsy carried out it was discovered to be internally infested with i think tapeworms and skins infections- and the amount of damage would have taken far longer than 10 days to get to such a state according to the person who carried out the autopsy. i got a written report of this and legal advice and still didnt get a refund. so i have learnt my lesson and know not to buy such animals from any pet shop especially the one i am talking about and i think most adelaide people will understand if they were to know which shop i am talking about. and after working in a different (equally dodgy) pet shop for 7 years i am very much anti pet shop. and i no longer work there thankfully

 

[notechistiger]

There first snake I bought (a spotted) was from a pet store, and she's the loveliest snake, and according to my vet when I had her probed, very healthy. I think it's not so much the pet store (they only really bump up the prices) but the breeder where they get the snakes from. The baby spotted in my previous thread had come from a Melbourne breeder, and had been brought up here to Brisbane.

 

[zulu]

re If

This is the reason why it is suggested to have ANY animal you purchase VET checked immediately. I havent bred any herps yet (only cats and dogs in the past) but I sure as hell wouldnt refund someone after a week let alone 2 weeks. 48 hours is plenty of time to establish an animals health. If you want to be cheap and go against what is advised after purchasing any animal then its your own fault if your animal dies of an illness.

Yes ideally reptiles should be quarrantined and taken to vet for a check up,where i go my vet worms reptiles for low cost and checks some urine and faeces under the microscope,its a small cost compared to that of many animals.

 

[mrmikk]

There are a lot of influencing factors here. Firstly, you need to seperate sellers being private or business, ie those with an ABN and those without, as they are both governed by different legislation.

The buyer needs to exercise caution and due diligence when entering into a sale, we have all heard of caveat emptor or let the buyer beware. From a buyer's perspective, you should do your reasearch on the seller, seek out others who have purchased from them before and get their feedback. In other words, try to take the emotion out of the purchase, as a lot of herp purchases involve 4 or 5 figure sums.

Another thing is check your local area for the type of herp you are after before buying one that requires freight, this will allow you to see it in the flesh first, meet the seller, and remove the stress of air freight on the animal.

At the end of the day a good reputable seller will do their best to ensure you get a healthy animal, it makes no sense to flog off sick animals to anyone unless you are a fly by nighter, as another saying goes, 'You can skin a sheep once, but you can shear it for life'. So by looking after your customers you will enourage repeat trade and good word of mouth.

There will always be the odd unforeseen problem, but a good seller will work with the buyer to resolve it. On that note a disgruntled buyer should contact the seller first and give them the opportunity to rectify the situation before going public with their grievances.

As for a herp purchase from a business or commercial seller, same applies but your avenues of redress, should a problem arise and all avenues exhausted attempting to resolve the situation are greater, eg state administered Fair Trading legislation and commmon law contract matters.

 

[janedoe]

i have had a snake die after just getting it home but the breeder i got it of was so nice he told me to bring it back and was all sorted i ended up getting another snake :0).

 

[crusty]

after 30 years of keeping, i don,t buy reptiles unless i know the person i am buying of or i can get a really good reference. I have found it to be a hard way of keeping stock but at least i have live stock

Buyers should be aware, last year i was on holidays, in a shop i visited there was a display showing choc maccies they looked really good. i spoke to the shop owner who gave me history on the snakes he seemed very knowable , i then asked to handle the snakes, i was not even asked to wash my hands he just handed me the snakes bosting how healthy they were, he also stated that they were really good feeders and they had all feed yesterday. I run my fingers down the bellies, they were all empty I didnt buy the snakes!!! it is really easy to buy rubbish if people are unsure of animals a vet is a cheep stop.,

 

[bredli_lover]

A similar question, if you purchase an animal that comes to you unwell/sick are you allowed to ask for payment of treatment from the seller or anything like that?

 

[Mrs I]

At the end of the day a good reputable seller will do their best to ensure you get a healthy animal, it makes no sense to flog off sick animals to anyone unless you are a fly by nighter, as another saying goes, 'You can skin a sheep once, but you can shear it for life'. So by looking after your customers you will enourage repeat trade and good word of mouth.

There will always be the odd unforeseen problem, but a good seller will work with the buyer to resolve it. On that note a disgruntled buyer should contact the seller first and give them the opportunity to rectify the situation before going public with their grievances.

Agreed,


I started this thread to see if there was some sort of unwritten law amoungst herpers.

And very nice to see we are keeping the thread ''clean'' from bickering.

Mrs i

xxx

 

[spilota_variegata]

How about a site rule that dictates the time between purchase and illness/death? Something like, if someone purchases a reptilie that is sick or dies within a specified period and can produce a veterinary certificate to substantiate the cause of illness/death, he/she shall have all costs refunded/veterinary costs paid for by seller. Failure to comply with result in the permanent suspsension of the offending person. 72 hours seems to be a fair and reasonable time to me.

 

[Mrs I]

How about a site rule that dictates the time between purchase and illness/death? Something like, if someone purchases a reptilie that is sick or dies within a specified period and can produce a veterinary certificate to substantiate the cause of illness/death, he/she shall have all costs refunded/veterinary costs paid for by seller. Failure to comply with result in the permanent suspsension of the offending person. 72 hours seems to be a fair and reasonable time to me.

Would the seller want to pay for a vet bill that in some cases may be more than what the animal cost, maybe the seller would prefer to just send or reimburse the original amount.

I also dont think APS has anything to do with it, more a buyer/seller thing.

 

[spilota_variegata]

APS can suspend anyone they want for any reason. The seller doesn't necessarily have to pay vet bills, particularly if the vet costs are greater than the purchase price of the snake. If the snake dies from a pre-existing illness, it is almost certain the seller knew of the problem prior to shipping. If there is no punishment for wrong doing, then there is no reason to stop. A veterinary certificate is proof the buyer is not at fault - they should therefore not be punished.

 

[lector]

I only purchase animals from breeders i know personally. I have been keeping reptiles for many tens of years and always quarantine my animals. They do not come into contact with any others for a period of 6 months to a year and a half depending on species. If a problem occurs within 3 months of my buying the animal i feel that the infection etc may have started within the previous owners care. I notify previous owner but do not place blame and do not expect replacement etc for animal as problem could have occured within that period. I do not believe in EVER selling sick animals but i do feel that there is a case for buyers beware within this market

 

[falconboy]

How about a site rule that dictates the time between purchase and illness/death? Something like, if someone purchases a reptilie that is sick or dies within a specified period and can produce a veterinary certificate to substantiate the cause of illness/death, he/she shall have all costs refunded/veterinary costs paid for by seller. Failure to comply with result in the permanent suspsension of the offending person. 72 hours seems to be a fair and reasonable time to me.

Considering the lack of good herp vets around, as a seller I would never agree to this.

 

[Bung-Eye]

this is the exact reason why I only buy from reputable breeders. I'm not a man with a huge collection by any standards, I only have 6 snakes, but I'm absolutely positive that if any of my snakes were "defective" in any way shape or form I could count on the person I bought them from to replace or rehabilitate them without worry.

(although I'm somewhat biased, 5 of my 6 snakes have come from the same breeder..... quality over quantity i reckon)

 

[falconboy]

Another point of view, one I've thought about many times. Not saying right or wrong, just something to think about.

With freighting, how do you know how its been stored/treated/handled - how easy is it to be left in the sun too long, dropped or whatever. On one occasion a container I received was covered in red splatter - can't work it out if it was paint or what - and it was not under the shipping label from AAE when I removed it, therefore it occured whilst under the care of AAE - who knows what or how it had been treated to get this splatter on it. The simple fact is that no freight, let along live animals should be in a position for this to happen. You are putting the welfare of your (sometimes expensive) animals, that have fairly sensitive care needs with the guys at AAE. How many stories do you hear of parcels not arriving, going to wrong states, being left on the tarmac, or that AAE don't even know where they are. It doesn't happen rarely, it seems to happen regularly - how many more do you think we don't hear about?. Most of it is computerised and parcels labelled. How hard can it be for those who do it day in, day out? Enough said.

With the individual you sent them to - especially if you don't know the person well or their knowledge, experience (or common sense) with herps, how do you know it hasn't been treated badly, whether purposely or not. What about having been left in the car on the way home while they 'quickly' pop in to get Maccas (we all know how quickly a dog or child can die in a locked car), or dropped/escaped/over stressed when transfering to an enclosure. Think of some of the stories about the not so fantastic people now and again that pop up on here or on petlink/other forums from time to time - are you still confident that you would be happy to refund/replace, especially from a complete stranger?

Why should the seller take all the risk? 99% of us are selling our pets, and NOT making profit and absolutely not as a commercial venture, Its not like buying an overpriced $2000 'designer' breed puppy from a pet shop and they are making $1500 profit (got those figures out of thin air - probably not far from the truth).

Just chucking in something the think about. Remember there are a lot of possible variables not controllable by the seller.

Oh, I'm not referring to animals (such as the odd one that pops up in forums from time to time) that arrives obviously in bad body condition (weight etc) or infested with mites/lice - obviously there are exceptions and some bad sellers who knowingly ship bad animals (not referring to anyone in particular or even thinking of anyone as an example) - one would expect a full refund in these situations.

I'll add I have never sold nor purchased an animal that has died soon after the transaction. I am not talking as a dodgy seller here. :shock: I would like to think that if one of the 25 or so herps I sold this season dies that I know about it.

 

[Mrs I]

Agree, Falconboy, Who knows what happens betwen the sellers hands and the new buyers hands.

Its hard to know who to trust who to deal with and not to deal with.

One seller may be 10/10 for one person and then 2/10 for another.

Same with buyers too.

Mrs I

xxx

 

[spilota_variegata]

Falconboy, you have to assume the freight company is competent. It's not in their best interest to kill your animals through neglect. They have strict protocols to follow with regard to how they handle live animals. Most sellers have their own unwritten protocols and usually they have reputations comensurate with their level of care. I would say 99% of us are respectable sellers, it's the other 1% that needs to be weeded out.

I've been lucky so far buying animals from this site and I would be happy to give positive feedback to those involved. I've also sold animals and given some away to people on this site. If an animal I sold - or gave away for that matter - was to get sick or die within a short time of me sending it, I would definitely offer some form of restitution/compensation.

Quite a varied response from those posting in this thread - and not one aggressive post

 

[lector]

In the end you'll find that both the buyer and seller take risks. I mean, how many people will buy an animal that they literally cant afford to have die? not many. It is always something a person must take into account when purchasing an animal, because they are not something you can just have "fixed". Eventually all animals die. If the buyer is concerned about issues in transit they allways have the option to meet the breeder and pick up the animal, if they are not willing to spend that kind of money on travel they take a risk. It is something that must be weighed up. The convenience of getting animals freighted against the POSSIBLE welfare of the animals

 

[Mrs I]

I've been lucky so far buying animals from this site and I would be happy to give positive feedback to those involved. I've also sold animals and given some away to people on this site. If an animal I sold - or gave away for that matter - was to get sick or die within a short time of me sending it, I would definitely offer some form of restitution/compensation.

Quite a varied response from those posting in this thread - and not one aggressive post

Agree,

If an animal I sold - or gave away for that matter - was to get sick or die within a short time of me sending it, I would definitely offer some form of restitution/compensation.


Has been very adult like so far, lol.....