prices!!! what is goin on

[steve6610]

There is no clause about being natural or not, but i havnt see any legal defintions of these terms.

Im fairly sure all snakes are hybrids and have mutations its just a matter of how much.

:shock::shock: :lol::lol::lol::lol:

i agree 100% with you cris, i've said the same for the last couple years, but saying that, as soon as i can get some albinos i will, just like i also own a few hybrids which isn't illegal to own, just knowing breed, and you will find in nws it is legal, they will even start a new number to record them.........

 

[Australis]

Still doesnt stop people from knowingly breeding hybrids eh

Atleast you can breed the albino factor out of a line...haha

 

[steve6610]

It is true what you say about the roughies, it is just the thought of investing so much money and now getting very litle ROI. I am not saying the money wouldn't be nice, but a clucth of 15 at $12000 each, that is some serious cash. I suppose a bit like breeding albino olives.

Anyone that has a large collection of animals doesn't do it, just for the shear pleasure of it. It may be part of it, but not totally. You wouldn't keep 30, 40, 50+ reptiles and not breed them. You can't tell me that your not making any money when you breed a clucth of 25 coastals and sell them for $200 each or more, or a clutch of jungles for $500 each, how about a clutch of 30+ Bredli at $300 each. C'mon, everyone who breeds is in it because they can make a dollar. Maybe not as much as some or those with high end animals but you certainly get enough to pay some bills and have a holiday or two. Show me a person who has a collection of 10 or 20 animals that doesn't breed them and make their money back and then a heap more. If you are not in it for the money, you could sell hatchies of any python for $50 and still make a few dollars. So, if you are not in it to make a few bucks, I expect to see a heap of people selling their pythons for $50 bucks each this year. And maybe some patternless levis for the same price as well.......:lol:

Cheers
Daz

never said i don't make money from my reptiles, i do, and sometimes a lot, but i don't go and buy them to make money, if i did i wouldn't have 40 coastals when i could have 40 of any other snake and make at least double per hatchy, i buy and breed what i like, not what makes the money,
if snake prices droped to $10.00 each tomorrow i'd still have them, and i give plenty away every year to friends......

i make more money by breeding the rodents to feed everybodys snakes, and yes, we do that as a business and have so for years...........

 

[steve6610]

Still doesnt stop people from knowingly breeding hybrids eh

Atleast you can breed the albino factor out of a line...haha

haha, no it doesn't, been there done that, you know it, i know it, never hid the fact, but what you call a hybrid isn't what i call a hybrid, like what i call a mutation isn't what you call a mutation, whos right and whos wrong, it doesn't really matter,

and i'm sorry, but you can't breed the albino factor out of any line, at any time one can show up, you can breed some individual snakes that won't carry the gen, but always some % of the hatchys will carry the gen, and when by chance somebody buys 2 and breeds them together they will get an albino,
all you can do is mask the fact that it is carrying the gen,

and look into pure animals, after 5 generations of breeding back to a pure partner they are classed as pure,

thats why you buy boar goats that are 2nd and 3rd crossed, when you get to 5, it's classed as pure?

 

[Australis]

Ponybug,

I dont feel like another dead end hybrid vs mutation debate..
Steve think about this, if you can breed a recessive mutation from line breeding, you can remove a recessive mutation also.
With Breeding you can prove out the non hets, same as you can prove possible hets to be hets.

But,
Im afraid your goat example doesnt mean much to me.
Its like saying that, adding "pure" water to a mixure of water and milk will eventually make it pure water again.

If i purchased a "pure" animal to be later told it was now pure because its the result of breeding back to pure stock for so many generations, i wouldnt be too impressed.

 

[pugsly]

Agree with you Hugs.

Of course people are in it to AT LEAST cover there costs in keeping and purchases. Especially the larger collections..

Wonder what the Roughies will be in 2 years? My guess about 2k. if that.

 

[oniddog]

well i was 1 of those that bought a pair of het darwins @ a substantial amount & am itching to get the lil buggers all grown up and breeding so i can get my own set of Albs!
But that was pretty much the only reason i bought them, just so i could hav sum HOT ALbinos of my own!
I'm gona be a gready ******* & keep the lot haha
then wen the time comes that im breeding Alb x Alb im seriously gona have to consider wich snakes to get rid of cos i'd probably wanna keep all them to !
THERE MINE DAM IT ,MIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNEEE !!!
nah probably wont get rid of nuthing and just live amoungst my pretttyyss MMMWAAAHHHAAAH HAA HA !!!!

 

[steve6610]

thats good matt, i don't want to get into a hybrid debate either because they always end up the same, thats why i don't get involved with hybrid debates much now, but in all fairness you started it with your ugly hybrid comment, i was just replying to you,

you also stated you could breed out the albino gen from a line, this isn't true in my eyes, YES you will get certain animals that don't carry the gen, but there will always be a % that carry the gen, therefor you can never say you can breed the gen out of a LINE, you can get indivdual animals that don't carry it,

if you don't under stand the goat thing, talk to some of the people that breed pure bred cattle and goats,

i liked your milk and water example, do me a favour, get a cup of milk, and a 2 ltr of water, start pouring the water into the milk until you have used all the water, then taste the cup of water and tell me what it is, you will find it is pure water...........

ps, i have been breeding and studying genitics for about 15 years, no, i didn't learn it is school, it was all self taught,

one last point on the mutation thing, until the wording of the qld rules have been changed it is illegal to knowingly breed any hybrid and mutation, natural accuring or man made.................


my apoligies for going of topic,

i think the snake ranch is doing a good thing for the hobby, it will make certain types of snake avalable to more people instead of the it's who you know thing, at least you know if you put an order in you have a chance to get that animal,
best of luck to them and i'll be putting in my orders soon, :lol:

 

[BIG RYANO]

I personally love seeing expensive pythons dropping in price quickly. If i was to win millions in a lottery or something, i would buy as many expensive pythons (greens,albinos etc) as i could get my hands on, start breeding them, and sell them for a couple of hundred each just to annoy people. I'd probably end up getting knocked off by a disgruntled python breeder.

 

[paleoherp]

I also agree with BIG RYANO I'm happy to see the prices fall as over the last 20 years I have watched them sky rocket especially around the early mid 90's when snakes became very commercial. Back in 1986-87 when I first got my licence Childrens Pythons were only $80.00 and back then there were a lot of species you could keep but you just couldn't get them. As the availability of a species becomes more common surely the price must drop.

 

[mertle]

I think it's a good thing to have the price drops,

Even if you did pay a lot for the intention of making a lot you will still make money,

It's like buying anything new and then a year down the track the price has dropped,

There are only so many people keeping pythons and more and more are having a go at breeding so the price has to come down eventually hey?

I would like to try breeding one day, not to make money but the idea of actually getting something like that to hatch and thrive is wonderful.

 

[Fester]

I would like to try breeding one day, not to make money but the idea of actually getting something like that to hatch and thrive is wonderful.

Yeah, I don't wish to make money, just enough to cover the overheads of keeping (power, feed etc)

 

[Chimera]

I think there were a lot of people who jumped on the early bandwagon of roughys and albino carpets paying on attention to all the buzz around on how easily they breed. It would stand to reason that the price would fall quickly as the availability increases exponentially as more people buy and breed them. Anyone who thought this wouldn't happen has the business sense of a One Tel executive.

 

[JasonL]

. So, if you are not in it to make a few bucks, I expect to see a heap of people selling their pythons for $50 bucks each this year. And maybe some patternless levis for the same price as well.......:lol:

Cheers
Daz[/QUOTE]

Ha, even if I sold them at $500 each, I'd still not make much, yes I have a moderate collection, but they are all insect eating lizards, I really only draw even, maybe I might get an extra 5k on a good year, but for about 10 hours a week labour, I can't say I do it for the cash.

 

[Midol]

It is true what you say about the roughies, it is just the thought of investing so much money and now getting very litle ROI. I am not saying the money wouldn't be nice, but a clucth of 15 at $12000 each, that is some serious cash. I suppose a bit like breeding albino olives.

Anyone that has a large collection of animals doesn't do it, just for the shear pleasure of it. It may be part of it, but not totally. You wouldn't keep 30, 40, 50+ reptiles and not breed them. You can't tell me that your not making any money when you breed a clucth of 25 coastals and sell them for $200 each or more, or a clutch of jungles for $500 each, how about a clutch of 30+ Bredli at $300 each. C'mon, everyone who breeds is in it because they can make a dollar. Maybe not as much as some or those with high end animals but you certainly get enough to pay some bills and have a holiday or two. Show me a person who has a collection of 10 or 20 animals that doesn't breed them and make their money back and then a heap more. If you are not in it for the money, you could sell hatchies of any python for $50 and still make a few dollars. So, if you are not in it to make a few bucks, I expect to see a heap of people selling their pythons for $50 bucks each this year. And maybe some patternless levis for the same price as well.......:lol:

Cheers
Daz

Not entirely true. Eventually Id like to breed and it won't be for the money, it'll be to breed good quality specimens. I'll probably sell them for the cost of raising them + a bit so they don't seem disposable then donate profits to charity

Not everyone is in it for the money.

Pony, I also don't get your example... Even then you just said a cup of milk + 2L of pure water = pure water? That's not true. It's 2L of water with a cup of milk added. Again, using dogs as an example (as it is what I know best... You know goats, I know dogs ) you breed a pug to a greyhound, then continue breeding the off spring to greyhonds for 10 generations it still isn't necessarily a pure greyhound, it has pug in it. It might look like a pure greyhound, but that doesn't make it so?

Or am I not understanding your example properly?

 

[fuegan13]

he said pour the cup of water into the milk. then taste the water... its still water.....

 

[Miss B]

Two litres of water mixed with one cup of milk ain't pure water. It's watery, watery, watery milk :|

It also wouldn't look and/or taste anything like pure water.

 

[the_brad]

god so many people say they dont care about the money! what a crock! i like 99.9% of people got into reptiles because they like to enjoy them for what ever reason, then you relise hey if i can make a little money out of doin somethink i love and seeing the creation of life (which is the biggest high light), which in turns makes others happy cause they now have somethink you help breed... why not!!
but saying your gunna give it all profit to charity, your not gunna get fare in life!!!

 

[steve6610]

nope you both missed it, i didn't use it as an example, somebody else did, i just started how i'd look at it,

hold the cup of milk and pour the 2 ltrs of water into the cup letting it overflow, at the end you will end up with a cup of water, i'm not talking about what spills out of the cup,

yep fuegan13, you got the right way,

 

[hugsta]

nope you both missed it, i didn't use it as an example, somebody else did, i just started how i'd look at it,

hold the cup of milk and pour the 2 ltrs of water into the cup letting it overflow, at the end you will end up with a cup of water, i'm not talking about what spills out of the cup,

yep fuegan13, you got the right way,

How does overflowing a cup of milk relate to breeding hybrids and making them all of sudden pure after 5 generations? The 5th generation may look like a Carpet, but it still has bredli in it regardless of how much you line breed the animal. It is just a reduction in percentage. 50/50, 75/25, 87.5/12.5, 93.75/6.25, 96.875/3.125 etc etc etc. The percentage halves each time you breed the hybrid, providing it is not being bred with another hybrid. So you will reduce the amount of bredli in the animal, but it will never truely be pure. I certainly would not want an animal sold to me as pure to find out five generations ago it was cross bred with something else.

Like I said, if your not in it for the money, people will be selling every species of python for $50 or $60 each. An adult pair of animals costs very little to look after and if you had 20 hatchies @ $50 each, you would still be making money. So it seems there will be some very cheap pythons up for sale this year if som many aren't in it to make a few dollars.

Cheers
Daz