Python Personalities???

[SamNabz]

Well im sorry you dont have a good relationship with your snakes..........

My reptiles are healthy, never miss a feed, breed and are problem/disease free... Is it not a good relationship because they don't smile at me?..

 

[sutto75]

You dont get it so i will leave it at that.

maybe you should read tigerbudgie post.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Reptiles react instinctively. I cannot disagree. But then again so do humans. Why do you think you blink when someone feigns throwing something at your face?

As animals that basically receive no maternal care, it is not surprising that reptiles should be primarily innate in their behaviours. However, their capacity for learned behaviour has been demonstrated. Unfortunately there has been very little scientific investigation into this and much of the evidence is anecdotal.

It has long been known that freshwater turtles and tortoises are able to recognise their keeper. I witnessed this myself at John Cann’s house as a lad some 40 plus years ago. Zoo keepers with experience in looking after Cobras agree that they too are able to recognise their keeper – probably part the reason they are chosen by the traditional Indian snake charmers. Large elapid snakes have demonstrated the ability to travel directly across 2 km or more from one refuge to another refuge, without diverging. Even if they are following a pheromone trail, it is still a learned behaviour of where their refuges are located and how to get there. Bobtails removed up to nearly a kilometre away from their home range are capable of making a beeline directly back to their more familiar surrounds. We don’t know how they manage this. The examples cited are taken from scientific articles and books eg Rick Shine’s “Australian Snakes – A Natural History”.

The point to be made here is that reptiles have a greater capacity for learned behaviour then the traditional wisdom would dictate. They also have a capacity to demonstrate behaviours beyond our current understanding.

That a python is able to recognise its “owner” is likely rather than unlikely. That a python reacts differently to different people does happen. Some exhibit a greater variety of reactivity to different individuals than do others. It is conjecture as what the stimulus might be – smell; provision of adequate support (positioning of hands and weight support where required, readjustment as required, loose to restrictive grip); amount of heat given off by holder; vibrations possibly given off by an individual; visual recognition. It is likely to be a combination of more than one. However, what is clear is that, like most animals, pythons can learn to associate certain stimuli with desirable outcomes or with undesirable outcomes. So ignoring the many other attendant influences on behaviour, they can learn to associate certain people with certain outcomes and will react / behave accordingly.

It is likely well beyond a reptile’s ability to develop rapport with another animal. However, it is certainly not beyond the capacity of humans to develop a rapport with reptiles. For those “tuned in” nuances in behaviour (posture, actions, reactions) provide insight into where the animal is at and allow for positive outcomes for the reptile. The reptile learns the association between the two.

I am in awe of those who have that genuine rapport.

Blue

 

[SYNeR]

lately my jungle is very cage defensive (does strike/bite) and really does want to held she try's to get away and when i do let her wonder and grab her again she trys to grab onto stuff what am i doing wrong

Not really sure there's much you can do. My Jungle is the same. If you go to get her out, she tries to slither away and wrap around things and generally acts flighty. If you hesitate when going to remove her, she *may* coil and then strike. Once she's out of the enclosure, she's an angel, however.

Someone suggested to try just waiting for her to come out, however this doesn't work.. She just sits there looking all intimidating with her beady black eyes.
You really have to just jump in and show them who's boss, without spooking them too much.

 

[sfearn242]

We have notice the behaver as well so we did a test. My son who is 8 had 6 of his mates around. We set the boys on the floor in a line and put the snake on the floor the other end of the room the one the snake went to could hold it for a while. It was all ways my son no mater where he sat the snake would go to him.

 

[smeejason]

I have had snakes that would try and eat me from the moment i opened their cages but my son could reach in and grab them out. i have had snakes that never looked like biting go agro when a certain person held them and no one else. I don't know whether it is certain feel, smell or what. All my snakes are in my garage and it is quite comical (or freaky as my wife puts it) to pull in the car and for 4 large black heads to appear and stare at you as you drive in. I have noticed that aspidities are a lot more curious than the morelia.
Would love to think they liked me but i think if anyone fed them an housed them they would be just as happy. But that goes for dogs and cats as well.

 

[Snakewoman]

My snakes prefer to be handled by me, especially my MD. I got him when he was 7 months old, he's now 2. He's content to be held by other people but if he can see me he tries to come back to me. One day when he was little I sat at the table with him, and let him explore. He was slithering around the table, then my mother reached over to pat him and he got a fright. He turned around and slithered back to me as fast as he could. It seems to me that snakes recognize their keeper's smell, and it seems to me that my MD felt safe with me. I don't believe snakes have emotional connections with people, they lack that ability, but it seems they know by smell who different people are.

 

[FAY]

I think they go to a scent that they know. I think more is read into their behaviour than there actually is.

 

[sutto75]

Is it too much to think that a snake may feel comfort from asmell that it recognizes or it gets the "vibe" of security from thatsmell? I like to think not.
Am I seeing into it too much maybe but as a person who hassnakes and loves them as much as Jack the dog and Rags the cat I will keepthinking and saying that yes I think my Bredli's know who I am
And get comfort from me being around. I know that there area lot of negative people on here and i understand that I will be told how sillythat sounds.
That’s fine but respect what people have to say and don't tryand bring them down because you don't understand where they are coming from.

 

[Defective]

my baby girl keiko loves hanging with me i've had her for less than 24hrs and already shes curled up and gone to sleep in my hand. and shes also very inquisitive

 

[saximus]

Sutto it's fine for you to believe that. Same as people who speak to their dogs as if they understand what they are saying. However, the fact is, there is little evidence for what you are proposing and whatever evidence does exist is anecdotal at best.
I have a Jungle who is flighty with everyone but me. I don't believe he gains comfort from me (or my smell) but I would say he is accustomed to it so knows there is no reason to fear me. Like I said it's fine for you to think what you do but you need to acknowledge that for every person who has your view, there are many more who have experience that is completely opposite

 

[sutto75]

Saximus i have no problem with people who have a different feeling then myself. there is little evidence out there to support what i say and like i said it could just be crazy me.
but how much has been done to study what snake can think,do,feel i would dare say not a great deal. 50 years ago whales where just big future candles swimming in the ocean.

 

[Scotty99]

And get comfort from me being around. I know that there area lot of negative people on here and i understand that I will be told how sillythat sounds.
That’s fine but respect what people have to say and don't tryand bring them down because you don't understand where they are coming from.

I agree mate keep believing in what you believe, I reckon they must recognise your smell as safety and be more relaxed then if someone with a scent they didn't recognise is holding them.

 

[KaotikJezta]

I am not going to say anything other than having been with and around reptiles for 25+ years and having constantly kept them for the last 10 years, I think there is a lot about reptiles people don't know, especially captive bred reptiles. Comparing the instinctual behaviour of wild reptiles with that of captive raised/bred ones is not going to prove anything as every thing acts differently in captivity. Take rats for example, rats in the wild run from humans where as in captivity they became very close to there owners and often prefer one person over another, they become depressed if they are ignored for a while and excited when they haven't seen someone for a while (this is pet rats, not food rats). They play with you, curl up and sleep with you, roll over to get their tummies rubbed. Is this all instinctual behaviour, I doubt it. I'll give one reptilian example, I had a blue tongue that actively looked for my dogs when he was out. We could all be sitting an the rug in the lounge room but he would make a beeline for the dogs and get comfy with them. They were obviously, from an instinctual point of view as big if not a bigger threat than us, they never fed him etc, so why out of a room full of people, dogs and cats, did he choose the dogs to sit with?

 

[sammie-leigh]

One of my girl jungles is a real B**** when my partner goes to get her out, or even if he just opens it up for feeding time, she will always go for him, but doesnt when i go to get her out or feed her, she seems to have some form of vendetta against him.
and our rats get excited when we get home from work because they know they can come out for a play, as soon as we open the door to where their cages are they all get up and wait for pats and stuff....
its very cute...
*for those that don't agree with the opinion that snakes can form some form of connection to their owners, i respect your opinion, please respect mine/ours that do believe it in return*

 

[hnn17]

look up the term anthropomorphism

pls don't use rats as examples in these threads, reptiles and mammals are very different.

there was a show on abc where they gave 4 people 4 identical goldfish and they would have to spend 1 hour alone with their fish and at the end describe the fish they were given, the fish all were described with different personalities and human characteristics, even though they are the same.

people who say snakes have no personality are looking at it from a scientific perspective, those who say they do are from the empathy view.

 

[Banjo]

Snakes definately know a particular scent to which they feel comfortable or safe with, sorry to sound horrible but I personally don't think snakes bound with a particualr person as such, just that they feel safe with person because of the scent which they associate with safety.
But I must agree it is nice to think that they are bounding somehow with someone spiritually.
My snakes definately prefer being with me when outside thier enclosures.
And moving to a new surroundings you should let them get use to it for one to two weeks before handling etc as mentioned before.

Mentioned on the first page of the post.

Flicking thier tongue and looking for someone, smelling the scent the air with the Jacobson gland and looking where the scent is coming from.

 

[Bluetongue1]

look up the term anthropomorphism

pls don't use rats as examples in these threads, reptiles and mammals are very different.

there was a show on abc where they gave 4 people 4 identical goldfish and they would have to spend 1 hour alone with their fish and at the end describe the fish they were given, the fish all were described with different personalities and human characteristics, even though they are the same.

people who say snakes have no personality are looking at it from a scientific perspective, those who say they do are from the empathy view.

We often tend to be anthropomorphic when discussing our pets. You only have to look at the title of the thread to see that. Irrespective, snakes of the same species and even the same clutch do vary in their behaviours and responses. Some are highly skittish while others can be particularly calm; some are active and curious while others are shy and retiring; and so on. Each has its own temperament – indulgently referred to as personality.

That snakes can learn has already been illustrated and is scientifically validated. Their behaviours are not solely innate or instinctive. The degree of learning is much less than that of a mammal or bird but none-the-less there.

Can we change the temperament of a snake and (the question that interests me) if so, how? Obviously where an animal is capable of learned behaviour it is capable of learning altered responses to any given stimuli, within the limits set by Mother Nature. So, for example, snakes which are bitey whenever you open the enclosure or put your hand in can be trained to respond otherwise. Yes we can change their temperament to a degree. The example of wild caught coastal taipans comes to mind. They are a flighty animal and quick to defend themselves aggressively when first captured. With appropriate treatment they settle to the point where you could free handle them if you were stupid enough. New born captive bred Taipans display the same flighty reactiveness of wild caught adults. A well known herpetologist who breeds these was telling me he puts them in a glass enclosure in the busiest room in the house and over the course of a week or three they go from rearing up at every sound and movement to being entirely placid when the enclosure is actually opened. Call it learning, call it operant conditioning, call it behaviour modification – the name is irrelevant.

People don’t seem to object when cats and dogs are described in anthropomorphic terms. Is it really stretching the limits to use a little on our reptile pets, so long as we understand what we are doing?


Blue

 

[KaotikJezta]

look up the term anthropomorphism

pls don't use rats as examples in these threads, reptiles and mammals are very different.

there was a show on abc where they gave 4 people 4 identical goldfish and they would have to spend 1 hour alone with their fish and at the end describe the fish they were given, the fish all were described with different personalities and human characteristics, even though they are the same.

people who say snakes have no personality are looking at it from a scientific perspective, those who say they do are from the empathy view.

So you zero in on the rat example and completely ignore the blue tongue example, scientific subjectivity at its best.

 

[hnn17]

we're talking about reptiles right ? the blue tongue example support you argument and is valid to bring up in this thread so i didn't say anything about it.