These eggs freak me out every time!!!

[pythons73]

So its time to get the scapels out..just kidding....Well Nicole theres been alot of negative comments and some good advice.but that seems to happen on all public forums...I must say the photos are very educational,some are not for the vaint hearted...Less than a week going by the 60odd day rule,but as been said before,it can take longer...All the best with the remaining and i hope we all see those white woms crawling around soon....MARK

 

[fine_jungles]

The Americans have been doing the exact same thing for years.
i wouldn't do it tho, great pics and love the adults.
This thread reminds me of hide and seek, ''coming ,ready or not''
good on ya for posting...
cheers.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Hi all. I took some photos this morning before work. Was going to upload them from work. It turned out to be the day from hell. I never even went back to pick up my laptop and camera. So sorry, no photos tonight. I should have a double instalment tomorrow. I will try to take pictures of the egg wall on the inside so you can see the veins running up the inside of the egg with blood in them.
On a public forum there will always be differences in opinion. I guess the art lies in being abe to accept another persons opinion.

 

[wranga]

Its probably not a wonder as to why the mortality rate is so high when it comes to people keeping these animals (eg: not the right environments, lack of humidity, too much humidity, not enough water, too much water, too hot, too cold blah blah blah). I think as a keeper it's important to try and get your head around what might actually work for the animal, rather than to further bend or distort certain aspects of the animals ‘very own nature” to suit ones needs. Surely from that perspective it's not too hard to understand where I'm coming from?

I did say "each to their own" and what I've written is my sole opinion only, right or wrong. I'm honestly not having a dig. The thread and pics are quite interesting, but I can’t get my head around reinventing the wheel.

think you will find the mortality rate is higher in wild animals than it is in captive bred animals. IMO its great to see someone trying to do something to increase the survival rate of all eggs in a clutch. as fine jungles pointed out this method has been used in the states for many years. i know of another breeder in australia that pipped an egg in a similar and the hatchie hatched with no problems

 

[Jay84]

And so the saga continues..........

I think this has been a great thread, and some amazing pictures of snakes in development that i would not have seen elsewhere. I am a fence sitter on this topic, i can see both for and against arguments that have been raised here.

Why there has to be so many crappy responses tho i dont know? Half of the questions asked by others i was wondering myself........

CP.c.a - I do hope they all hatch for you,m please keep more pics coming.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Will do. Just opened another clutch. 50% Albino, 50% possible het. To the number in this clutch, perfect Mendelian ratios. Something interesting about this line was the fact that it was a combination of the two different lines of albino around. The alleles are compatible, I was very relieved that they were not double hets. This mutation should have the same origins, if the founing animals were initially collected from the same locality?

 

[krefft]

I, like many commenting on this thread have always thought that the time to pip or not to pip is one that fills you with anxiety.
Until I watched these videos. There would be a difference between a Retic and a Carpet hatchling but I'm amazed just how rough he can be.
He's probably opened more eggs than any of us, so he's doing something right.

[video=youtube;gzHqMWgUrCs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzHqMWgUrCs[/video]

[video=youtube;yRGYpKzPV8I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRGYpKzPV8I[/video]

I remember at the 40th anniversary conference of the AHS there were 2 talks on breeding Black Headed Pythons. Ged Hughes spoke on a successful breeding and Melbourne Zoo gave one on an unsuccessful attempt.
I learnt just as much from the unsuccessful attempt. Regardless of your views I think this is much more interesting and relevant than many of the other threads that are constantly posted. Agree or disagree it's relevant and interesting.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Thanks for that Krefft. I will post a mixed batch of pics tomorrow. If I am not mistaken day 56 and 57?

 

[Australis]

This has never been a competition with Brian Barnett. It seems you don't need an elaborate setup like a humidicrib after all to keep hatchlings alive. .

The plastic container your using is a humidicrib.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Thanks for clearing that up australis. I thought a humidicrib needed to be sterile and have the egg suspended in the air with string. So it's basically a container with high humidity?

 

[Renagade]

I, like many commenting on this thread have always thought that the time to pip or not to pip is one that fills you with anxiety.
Until I watched these videos. There would be a difference between a Retic and a Carpet hatchling but I'm amazed just how rough he can be.
He's probably opened more eggs than any of us, so he's doing something right.

YouTube - Prehistoric Pets First Caramel Albino Tiger Retic

YouTube - Prehistoric Pets: Some of the First White Burms

.

Interesting vid krefft, he just hacks on in yabbering away. shame he is way too annoying to hold a 9 min you tube vid.

keep the pics coming CP,c.a

 

[krefft]

Interesting vid krefft, he just hacks on in yabbering away. shame he is way too annoying to hold a 9 min you tube vid.

keep the pics coming CP,c.a

I know. After posting it I clicked on the link to make sure it works. I'd forgotten how annoying he was. His pronunciation of caramel gave me a nose bleed. Best watched with the sound turned down.

 

[DerekRoddy]

I still can't figure out what all the hub bub is with this thread.
I mean...pipping is as much of egg husbandry as artificial incubation. well, everywhere in the world but, Australia.... I guess. Haha.
I've hatched hundreds of eggs.....and I'd say up to 95% of them....I cut open.
I work with mostly BHPs and I can tell you this....in the states.....you don't cut the eggs open....you'll have dead baby BHPs.
My first year with BHPs....I had a clutch not pip on it's own and most of them died....fully formed (with egg teeth and all) in the eggs. Since then....I ALWAYS cut them....no questions asked.
Even with all the eggs I've cut open....I've never lost a hatchling from doing it......saved a good many but, never lost one from pipping.
I cut open a BHP last year that was fully formed still in the egg sack...dead. It had an egg tooth so why didn't it come out?
I believe....whatever tells the babies to get the hell out of there never happened. It wasn't that it couldn't get out because it "didn't have an egg tooth".
As I said....I've hatched hundreds of snakes and I've NEVER seen a snake without an egg tooth.
Sometimes.... it's because of a deformity...such as kinked spine, etc....And, those hatchlings wouldn't make it anyway.
I'm really into learning as much about the process as possible and I've cut eggs as early as 40 days....just to watch the development. (Which is really cool BTW)
I have a friend..... who for a collage project....cut eggs open at 15 DAYS!!!!!!! To watch and record data on developing embryos. They all hatched fine and they were CHONDRO eggs at that!!!!!!!!
As long as you don't harm the actual embryo.....you'll be fine. I've even cut some pretty big veins.....and the snakes were fine. Although, I suggest being as careful as possible.
But, pipping is so easy...............










a child can do it.

Here's some more shots with eggs I've pipped.
I've learned a lot from doing this over the years and can tell.... at what state the embryos are at... with more accuracy.
Check some of these out....
first breath of life.

This one is interesting......you can clearly see the 2 hatchlings coming out....they're ready. But....what's up with the hatchling on the right.....it's about 5 days behind the others....why? Was in the same egg container, sitting right by the others that hatched.
Also, look at that middle egg of the left...even though I pipped it....it still made slits on the side of the egg.

An Axanthic BHP...

Another Axanthic...

So to recap....Pipping is harmless....unless you actually hurt the embryo.
Plus, you learn.....what's wrong with that?

Cheers everyone...have fun and happy herping.

D.

 

[GreggMadden]

Great post Derek!!!

Just to be clear again, none of us can have a purest veiw when we keep animals in captivity... In captivity, there is no more natural selection, no more nature...

To be a purest in this hobby/culture is contadictory!!!

 

[Jungletrans]

l suppose if this method saved an inferior or deformed hatchie that should have died in the egg you would let the person buying it know .

 

[BROWNS]

Never seen a snake without an egg tooth?

A good friend sent me pics of 3 jungles fully formed but didn't hatch because of no egg tooth but I just updated windows and somehow my email had all emails from a previous dial up server so I can't put pics up but will get outlook express sorted out and find the pics to show everyone...it does happen I'm surprised after hatching out hundreds of hatchlings and not one had no egg tooth?

I'm just being hypothetical here but say my friend pipped his eggs like in this thread they would've hatched out and just say the no egg tooth was caused genetically and could be inherited he'd be selling snakes that may pass on the genetic fault to it's offspring or a certain percentage they would end up getting into others collections and when these people try breeding them and wonder why some did not hatch out if that makes any sense,bit late and tired lol

 

[DerekRoddy]

Never seen a snake without an egg tooth?

...it does happen I'm surprised after hatching out hundreds of hatchlings and not one had no egg tooth?

Not saying it doesn't happen......just saying...out of the hundreds I've hatched....I personally haven't seen it.
But, I've seen perfect hatchlings dead...... with an egg tooth.

Cheers,
D.

 

[DerekRoddy]

l suppose if this method saved an inferior or deformed hatchie that should have died in the egg you would let the person buying it know .

Why would I sell someone a deformed hatchie? That doesn't make sense. Haha.
And, how would you know if it's "inferior" or not?
Would it tell you? LoL.
Going by that judgment....a perfectly normal hatchling..... could be "inferior".

Plus, I don't breed animals specifically to sell.......I breed them to learn about the animals I'm keeping.

Cheers,
D.

 

[DerekRoddy]

Oh...BTW....Can any of you see egg teeth...in ANY of the photos I posted?
They're there.....but, a lot of time...you can't see it....only feel it.

Cheers,
D.

 

[Just_Joshin]

My first year with BHPs....I had a clutch not pip on it's own and most of them died....fully formed (with egg teeth and all) in the eggs. Since then....I ALWAYS cut them....no questions asked.
Even with all the eggs I've cut open....I've never lost a hatchling from doing it......saved a good many but, never lost one from pipping.
I cut open a BHP last year that was fully formed still in the egg sack...dead. It had an egg tooth so why didn't it come out?
I believe....whatever tells the babies to get the hell out of there never happened. It wasn't that it couldn't get out because it "didn't have an egg tooth".
As I said....I've hatched hundreds of snakes and I've NEVER seen a snake without an egg tooth.
Sometimes.... it's because of a deformity...such as kinked spine, etc....And, those hatchlings wouldn't make it anyway.

Pipping works, no doubt, it is not the success of the method i was questioning in my earlier posts. What i want to know is why do they not emerge if everything else is perfectly fine. Why is it that one year they may hatch normally, then the next they all die in the egg?? If we assume the reason is not genetic for arguments sake, then there must be some abiotic factor that we are missing. Could it be the lunar cycle which they are know closed off from being locked in an incubator?? Could it, perhaps, be day/night light cycle (better survival hatching at different time)?? Dramatic change in barometric pressure (Speculation of storms triggering wild hatchings).

I just feel that rather then pipping the eggs artificially, we should maybe aim to work out what it is we are doing wrong.

Do people have to pip bird eggs??? It seems that many people within the reptile hobby report the need to pip because they have lost many reptiles in the past due to no pipping! So.....how many people have heard of bird eggs (that are artificially incubated) going full term, appearing perfectly developed but not emerging from there eggs??