These eggs freak me out every time!!!

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Scientists beleive ot has to do with carbon dioxide levels surrounding an egg. they believe high levels of carbond ioxide would prompt the hatchling to leave the egg. If they dont realise this they would suffocate. I dont think we know how it would work in pythons. Maybe the mother has something to do with it?

 

[GreggMadden]

l suppose if this method saved an inferior or deformed hatchie that should have died in the egg you would let the person buying it know .

What??? So eggs that are piped contain hatchlings that should have died???

As far as the carbon dioxide trigger eggs to hatch, this is true but I think it causes premature hatching in captivity more so than it is a way to trigger eggs at the right time... This is why many reptiles hatch with a yolk sack... Being that most snakes do not burry their eggs like lizards, I do not think carbon dioxide would build up around the egg in a natural setting as much as it would in an incubation container...

 

[CodeRed]

Scientists beleive ot has to do with carbon dioxide levels surrounding an egg. they believe high levels of carbond ioxide would prompt the hatchling to leave the egg. If they dont realise this they would suffocate. I dont think we know how it would work in pythons. Maybe the mother has something to do with it?

I am not sure that I agree with carbon dioxide theory. I think there is something more complex at play, but I dont know what that is.

What I have noticed is that eggs in a clump tend to pip at the same time (say within 12 hrs of each other), whereas eggs (from the same clutch) that are separated from the clump will generally pip later. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Just_Joshin]

I am not sure that I agree with carbon dioxide theory. I think there is something more complex at play, but I dont know what that is.

What I have noticed is that eggs in a clump tend to pip at the same time (say within 12 hrs of each other), whereas eggs (from the same clutch) that are separated from the clump will generally pip later. Has anyone else noticed this?

Interesting....this is the sort of input i've been hoping to see from breeders producing many clutches.

Has anyone used both a glass fronted incubator (in a room that receives a natural light cycle (except maybe turning light on to check of a night) AND an incubator that was sealed off from the light (i.e old fridge or esky etc). If so was hatching success or pipping different between the two??

 

[CodeRed]

My incubator is glass fronted and the room receives a lot of natural light

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Interesting. I guess there are things we will never know. I reckon it has something to do with mamma python!

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Day 56, 17/11/09:

I turned off the flash for some of the photos to see if the colours come out better. I will take some photos of day 57 this arvo.

 

[BROWNS]

Personally I think it may have something to do with artificial incubation as I've used both maternal and artificial incubation and had great success with maternal incubation,after all that's what mums do best and has been happening for thousands of years,I think I'd also try maternal incubation if I ever got and bred greens.

 

[Chrisreptile]

I am not sure that I agree with carbon dioxide theory. I think there is something more complex at play, but I dont know what that is.

What I have noticed is that eggs in a clump tend to pip at the same time (say within 12 hrs of each other), whereas eggs (from the same clutch) that are separated from the clump will generally pip later. Has anyone else noticed this?

Could the heat from metabolism prompt the eggs (in a clump) to start pipping? Whereas eggs that were seperated might not get as much heat, meaning they (sometimes) don't pip in unison?

 

[solar 17]

clumped eggs

I don't have an incubator [as such] l use one of my snake enclosures and just put some globes and thermostat [habistat dimmer] in there glass front and all and because of my hide / heat box set-up 99.9 % of my eggs are clumped, as often [most times] l find females coiled on their eggs......and l don't notice any hatching patterns ...sometimes all together sometimes 3-4 days apart , so far this season 3-4 clutches of bhp,s have hatched at all different times and the same with the macs....cheers solar 17 [Baden]........ps l generally cut my eggs when l see the "egg" temp. rise by point four of a degree this is generally 51-53 days ...l use a high grade thermo. gauge........

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Could the heat from metabolism prompt the eggs (in a clump) to start pipping? Whereas eggs that were seperated might not get as much heat?

You might be onto something there mate!!! The combined heat of the clump + the mothers heat generating ablity = Hatching? She cooks them out of the eggs! Maybe.

 

[BROWNS]

Can see the egg tooth now!

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Which one Browns?

 

[BROWNS]

I've tested the temp of eggs in a clump and the lower and middle eggs had some variation in temps compared to eggs on the top and throughout the whole clutch and there wasn't a uniform temp with each egg which was interesting!

 

[Ozzie Python]

This so far has been a very interesting thread.
Derek your comments have been very interesting for me. Why in the USA do you have high death rates in clutches if not pipped? Seems a bit strange to me, surely your incubation techniques are not too different to what we do, if anything we would be copying your technique more and more.

Interesting Baden that you pip yours as soon as the temp rises by .4C.
any reason in particular you do this? If it is earlier on during incubation that the egg temps rise would you still pip them?

 

[solar 17]

Temp. Rise

Personally l have never had them rise [temps] prior to this time frame....l do use [2] different forms of temperature checking to make sure that the rise [temp.] has commenced...cheers solar 17 [Baden]

 

[moosenoose]

Pipping works, no doubt, it is not the success of the method i was questioning in my earlier posts. What i want to know is why do they not emerge if everything else is perfectly fine. Why is it that one year they may hatch normally, then the next they all die in the egg?? If we assume the reason is not genetic for arguments sake, then there must be some abiotic factor that we are missing. Could it be the lunar cycle which they are know closed off from being locked in an incubator?? Could it, perhaps, be day/night light cycle (better survival hatching at different time)?? Dramatic change in barometric pressure (Speculation of storms triggering wild hatchings).

I just feel that rather then pipping the eggs artificially, we should maybe aim to work out what it is we are doing wrong.

Do people have to pip bird eggs??? It seems that many people within the reptile hobby report the need to pip because they have lost many reptiles in the past due to no pipping! So.....how many people have heard of bird eggs (that are artificially incubated) going full term, appearing perfectly developed but not emerging from there eggs??

Actually, you've worded what I'm thinking much better JJ.

The photos are remarkable none-the-less, and clearly the method seems to work for you CPCA. Thanks for sharing.

I suppose anything "a bit out there" begs a few questions. People say the US has been doing this method for years, and in another thread people are bagging certain US practices. Off topic a little, it's quite common-place to de-claw cats in various part of the States, whereas here it seems quite a cruel (possibly illegal) and an unnecessary practice.

I don’t think there is anything “immoral” with what’s being done, not really even the argument that it’s un-natural. I just think it’s unnecessary. I went to a lecture with John Weigel awhile ago and he was talking about the various techniques he’s used in regards to snake breeding, one was actually leaving the eggs with the female in its naturally laid clutch (can you believe it!! :lol which consistently resulted in a 100% success rate, all the time, every time.

Anyway, I have nothing further to comment on the topic, I sound like a broken record :lol: I’ll be watching with interest and wish you the very best with this technique.

 

[Serpentes]

I can provide references if necessary, but 1. there is CO2 build-up in clumped python egg clutches, demonstrated in Antaresia; and 2. there are several cues but mostly movement by a hatching egg, or sometimes the mother, or even vocalisations (in crocodilians) are the cues to hatching.

The primary cue to hatching is simply the developmental stage of the embryo. When it is ready, it will hatch. The poor seppos have a problem with hatching because many collections hold animals of inferior (weak) genetic composition, as seen in these albino pythons.

 

[Ozzie Python]

Serpentes, i was going to question if their hatching problem (not slitting eggs themself as mentioned by Derek) could have something to do with their limited number of genetic lines from original Australian species breeding stock.

 

[JasonL]

The primary cue to hatching is simply the developmental stage of the embryo. When it is ready, it will hatch. The poor seppos have a problem with hatching because many collections hold animals of inferior (weak) genetic composition, as seen in these albino pythons.

I agree, Actually hatching from the egg is a big step for a snake that could either be weakened genetically or artificially, this is an important part of the "only the strongest survive process", take this away and your weakening the hobby to line your pockets.