TrueBlue's Anti-Thermostat Stand

[Blackdog]

Oi enough with the old, your no spring chicken yourself.

 

[whatsup]

pmsl. you did'nt mind the grey hair bit?was hoping you'd see the thread

 

[Blackdog]

Can't deny the hair is grey, but I am NOT old, just time challenged.
By the way the price of your bulbs just went up.

 

[ALLANA]

Rob I think your setup is a great idea and have actually been considering the same setup for a while (although I have never used thermostat's anyhow, havn't found the need.

Allana

 

[TrueBlue]

hahaha, getting ready for the next herp trip north blackdog.???
should have my new reef boat by the time yous get here.

 

[PimmsPythons]

Slightly off topic Rob but what are you (and every one else i suppose) going to do when you can only buy the fluro type of globe? I think we are only a year away from the incandescent globes being banned.

all my main cages are set up in the same way as the photos below .i have a main light (fluro) and an other light under the basking shelf (up high in a corner)to keep it warm so that is the only "hotspot"in the cage.i dont use more than a 25 watt bulb (in winter)for the basking light and i have found that the higher wattage fluros (15-18 watt) give of enough heat to warm it.at night i give them no heat.the cages are well ventilated and i dont use a thermostat.if they want the warm spot they know where to go.in the summer months i just take the basking bulb out.
i believe in trying to copy the temps the the species are found in.eg,diamonds cooler ,darwins warmer.

 

[zulu]

I have a friend that works at a light/electrical shop, and ill just stock up and by a few grands worth of bulbs to last untill i die.

LMAO

 

[Blackdog]

hahaha, getting ready for the next herp trip north blackdog.???
should have my new reef boat by the time yous get here.


Hmmm, herping in paradise and wasting time fishing the Great Barrier Reef. Oh ok it'll be a tough job but i guess someone has to do it.

 

[reptyle]

many people seem to be referring back to "it wouldnt be like that in the wild", etc, but we have to remember, the majority, if not all of these snakes have been multi generation captive breed reptiles that have thrived in each of these conditions mentioned.
in my opinion, i dont see why there is conflict over to methods that are both successful.
just my 2 cents anyway, lol

ian

 

[Retic]

I feel I should just say that I have nothing against the style of cage Rod uses, I have seen all sorts of variations of it over the years and they seem to work well with or without thermostats.
I think the without thermostat system certainly can work in the right climate, probably not as useful in southern states but it has it's merits. My 'issue' if you like is that the exact same system can't work with a thermostat or the assumption that a thermostat somehow shortens a snakes life. I still haven't heard anything to suggest that could be true.
Each to their own and whatever works but we mustn't be telling people something is dangerous without telling people why and what can be done to make them safe.

 

[Tatelina]

I have a thermostat.. I bought it months before I got any snakes and it's still sitting in the same box under my bed unused..
All my tanks/enclosures have a hot and a cool end. They all eat, crap, shed, explore, drink.... So I guess they're happy and healthy?

 

[sengir]

OK

There really is no need for the sarcasm Rob, I understand exactly what you are saying but my point is that having a thermostat somehow shortens a snakes life and I still have heard nothing to come close to showing me how.
I know you have said to me that I argue with you but I am trying to understand what you are saying and some of it to me makes no sense. I use dimmer stats which don't switch lights on and off and maintain a constant temperature extremely well.
I think what you need to do is avoid telling people, especially new keepers, that thermostats are bad and will kill your animals because that is all people see KILL YOUR ANIMALS. Of course a thermostat can fail and could kill an animal but that is only if the keeper is using a bulb that is way too powerful for the cage it is heating.
I have seen a great many collections big and small including some of the biggest breeders in this country and almost without fail they use good quality thermostats and have amazing results. That is not to say their system is right but equally it isn't saying yours is wrong, both systems work in different situations. Rather than scaring people with theoretical scenarios I feel it is better to advice keepers, new and old, on the correct way to set up a cage be it with or without a thermostat.

this is not directed at anyone inparicular! i feel this gets thrown around WAY to often!
'IN THE WILD' is a bad term imo, i have a part time job in a pet shop on the weekends and i here this atleast once a day! this is just a few of the things i have customers say to me every weekend:
-'they dont need a heat light, they wouldnt have it in the wild'
-'they eat live mice and rats and what ever else i catch around the house, they would eat it in the wild'
-'i feed him every 10-12 weeks, thats all he would catch in the wild'
-i never worm them, who's gona worm them in the wild?'

im not joking this is some of the things i here EVERYWEEK! then i reply with the following:
1) these arent wild animals.....they are captive and so should be given the best of conditions that you can give them!
2) i then usually ask if they have a dog and wether the treat it like a wild dog, and throw them rotting animal, or just release animals into the backyard so the dog can catch it and kill it like it would do IN THE WILD, dont supply a bed etc and just let it find somewhere in the yard it likes (which some dogs do), wether they worm them or wash their dog.......... usually they look after their dog ok, but to them they look at reptiles like wild animals still.

i just believe with the rate that this hobby is growing, that the coment just gets thrown around to much and people should start talking about reptiles lilke they are captive animals more cause if we the breeders dont, then all the new comers will also be using the excuss that its like that 'in the wild'

sorry about my little rant..... i probably should have started a new thread...lol

I feel I should just say that I have nothing against the style of cage Rod uses, I have seen all sorts of variations of it over the years and they seem to work well with or without thermostats.
I think the without thermostat system certainly can work in the right climate, probably not as useful in southern states but it has it's merits. My 'issue' if you like is that the exact same system can't work with a thermostat or the assumption that a thermostat somehow shortens a snakes life. I still haven't heard anything to suggest that could be true.
Each to their own and whatever works but we mustn't be telling people something is dangerous without telling people why and what can be done to make them safe.

OK everyone its late and I love this thread. Good reading the probelm with this is that every keeper has their own preferred method of heating/cooling their snakes and just because one keeper say their method is right doesn't mean he is right or another person will change to use it. I agree with the quoted phrase in BOA's post "that is all people see KILL YOUR ANIMALS" that is all people see, rob I don't believe it will kill there animals. The problem is people don't do enough research into what the animal needs or how to heat it properly, "newbs" could go out and buy a 100 watt globe for a 2 foot enclosure with a thermostat and the thermo dies = cooked snake, yet if they did their research bought say a 25-50 watt globe with or with out a thermo no matter what whether the thermo dies or they don't have one there is little chance of a snake bbq. So maybe instead of people not trying to say, anyone in particular or that anyone says this, but instead of focusing on the point of how bad thermo's are how bout focus on the right selection of globe and wattage to suit the individuals tank.

Jason as to your post about "IN THE WILD" in the relativity of things snakes as compared to dogs ARE WILD, how long has the dog been domesticated as to the reptile. I am not sure on the exact number but I think you could safely say a least hundreds of years, so comparing a dog to a reptile is being very simple and not really thinking your argument through. I don;t mean offense but really think about it, how in anyway do either of the two really relate in the terms of domestication, they don't really, multi generation captive bred in snake terms generally mean probably 20 predecessor lines of captive breeding which would be about 50 to 60 years at max, dogs is like hundreds or thousands of times previously captive bred, I can't explain it properly but I would hope you should all understand what I mean. So in no way can you compare reptiles to dogs. barely any of there requirements other than food and water are remotely the same.

To everyone I agree with Robs method of giving the snakes an ambient temperature gradient (a gradient that is also affected by the natural weather conditions) but at the same time I agree with boa in that I think that using the right wattage globes and a bit of common sense when setting up the cage thermostats can also be used safely, and as to the thought that using thermos to create a constant heat range being detrimental to a snakes health I have no idea so I cannot comment on that.

I am only stating my opinion and not of anyone else, I really think that any knowledge one person can gain in this hobby is by listening to various different keepers and their opinions and using your own common sense, to put in place which method or conglomorate of methods that suit the individual.

Once again this is my rave and it is late so sorry if you don't understand or don't agree

 

[Recharge]

gah, even in the articles about banning incandescent bulbs, they said, you'd STILL be able to get them for pet and other speciality needs...

and it won't be for years yet anyway...

 

[Hetty]

I'm with Recharge, they'll have to keep selling them for some purposes.

 

[Recharge]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/recharge1/Pictures/Snake/enclosures.jpg
thermostat is fine is something like this even if the bulb is left on, no way could it cook the snake lots of "running" room too hehe

 

[ravensgait]

So this is just your opinion then ? and here I thought there might be some research to look into... Randy

 

[ravensgait]

Reading all this I have a question, do most the folks in Australia use lights to heat your cages? from reading this it sure seems that many do.
I've used heat lamps very very seldom and have never liked using them but to each their own.

I can understand that using lamps with a thermostat would be a problem, On/off types would drive you and the snake nuts and proportional types wouldn't work well on low settings and both types would cause bulbs to wear out faster as switching a light on and off causes it to fail sooner as does running it at lower power than it was designed for.

I use heat panels, heat tape or pads and heat rope all are hooked up to a thermostat or rheostat. My cages are in rooms in my basement which do vary in temperature from summer to winter. I have lights on timers in each room for day lighting and red bulbs to see and feed by at night. I use the night drop feature on my thermostats if I need to drop the temps or I just have them set to shut off for a certain length of time at night if I need it. Or both features together during cooling for breeding with some animals to slowly reduce and bring back up the temps..

I think it is irresponsible to flat out state that Thermostats are bad and will kill or shorten a snakes life. As using a Thermostat properly with equipment it is designed to work with is one of the best safety features you and your animals can have. Thermostats used with heat panels, heat tape or pads or heat rope is safer for both you and your snakes, Panels and some pads are designed to never get hot enough to burn. And they are cheaper to use in the long run as they don't use anywhere near the electricity that heat lamps and bulbs do. Using a thermostat you can fine tune your cage temps you can't do that without one.

If bulbs are all you have to use or want to use fine but saying a Thermostat is a bad thing to use is just wrong no if ands or buts about it... I'm not trying to tell anyone what to use here and I'm not familiar with what you have available to use in Aus.. But I can speak from my experience having kept a bunch of snakes over the years and a temperature controller of some type is the best way to go... Randy

 

[salebrosus]

I'll sit this one out this time, but I will get beer and popcorn if anyone wants to join me.......LOL

Grab a few rums for me Huggy and join me in my loungeroom for this one. LOL.

Simone.

 

[TrueBlue]

boa boa boa, your "issue" is that you only seem to read what you want to read or understand what you want to.??.
For about the 501 time im talking about a box type set up, with wattage bulbs that WILL cook the snake if the thermo breaks,hell even low wattage bulbs in warm weather will do this.
This is by far the most common set up.
Ive never said a thermostat wont work with this method?, but its a complete waste of money and time using one cause its not needed.
My method is simple and non dangreous, unlike most thermo set ups.
And many species of reptiles that are housed in hot box type enclosures will suffer and not live as long, this is fact.

Almost all reptiles need metabloic rest from time to time, for good health and longlivity, and most thermostat set ups simply do not allow this.

 

[TrueBlue]

more than an opinion, ive seen it many times over the years, proofs in the pudding.