Winter cooling - Diamonds

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

Just random dimensions I made up for the purpose of the conversation Ian. My enclosures are larger than that I plan is to move them outside into larger ones as soon as I can. I just get the impression (from here mostly) that there are a lot of diamonds living in enclosures of approximately that size. Apologies if my asumption was inaccurate but I don't imagine many are keeping them in enclosures much bigger than that (particularly when following the dimension guidelines in some reputable books). Not that I agree with this (in my opinion the bigger the better). I just call it as I see it.

As for the temperature I know what you mean and my enclosures provide the gradient described by serpenttongue. But for generalised discussion (which is really why I put the question about the partition/enclosure out there) temperature gradients vary largely depending on not only the enclosure and the location you live, but also the room of the house you have them in, the direction they face etc.

Unfortunately Diamonds are the first snake recommended to most new amateur herps (probably because of their temperament) but the more I keep and the more I learn I think they're one of the most complex to look after properly.

I totally agree. That is why i have asked for Nick's articles to be posted in the wiki so that they are not lost forever in a pile of magazines.

Cheers
& we all love Diamonds.
Ian

 

[Striker]

hence all my ongoing questions and attempts at provoking discussion. I think mine are going well because I'm pedantic, but it'll only get better for them with a million questions and I want it perfect.

Your Diamond looks awesome by the way. I think that's the one you lost a while back - sorry again about that. Really looks good.

 

[zulu]

What you're missing is the room temperature - what is it? It's no good giving them a basking temp of 30-32'c if the room itself is 30'c during a hot summer, because they need to be able to cool themselves down to the low 20's whenever they want (diamonds typically bask in the sun until around 10am and then move off into cooler areas for the rest of the day).

So they need a hotspot that reaches 30-32'c, but the rest of the enclosure stays around 22'c. This is harder to acheive than just giving them a warm end and a cool end, like you would with other pythons.

They have a higher average body temperature during summer Nick so you dont need the low 20s,in the winter time diamonds have a lower average body temperature. What they do need though is a constant gradually changing temperature,just at highs and lows at different times of the year.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

hence all my ongoing questions and attempts at provoking discussion. I think mine are going well because I'm pedantic, but it'll only get better for them with a million questions and I want it perfect.

Your Diamond looks awesome by the way. I think that's the one you lost a while back - sorry again about that. Really looks good.

Yah mate you are right there once again. I guess that is why i am a bit pationate about this discussion. I just want all the rest of captive Diamonds to have the best chance. I thought that i was doing it OK but ended NOT.
Well anyway she was a pleasure to have for some 6 years or so, the male is going to a good home on friday.

I did not mean to swerve your qstn about the divisions either, i guess that is one good thing about having drinks is that it clears the head a bit.
I have actually done divisions in my BHP enclosures as you say. It seems to be working very good & enables the thermostat to easily regulate the heat at hot end while the cooler end stays cooler. Due to hot summer weather here i have also put the BHPs into a air conditioned room so that the ac can come on at intervals during hot weather to keep the room cooled.
As you could understand there would not be much of a cool end if the ambient room temp was say 40c.

Cheers
Ian

 

[jahan]

Also my Diamonds only get between 7 and 10 feeds a year.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

Also my Diamonds only get between 7 and 10 feeds a year.

That is a very broard statement, i guess you mean that they are adults & you feed the apropriatly sized food items?

 

[Norm]

I was just about to ask the same thing

 

[serpenttongue]

They have a higher average body temperature during summer Nick so you dont need the low 20s,in the winter time diamonds have a lower average body temperature. What they do need though is a constant gradually changing temperature,just at highs and lows at different times of the year.

I can only go by my ex-captives, but they tended to avoid the heat even more in summer, and often didn't even emerge to bask in the mornings, since they were still reasonably warm from the day/night before.

A wild diamond could easily retain body heat throughout the night, from the muggy, hot weather of the day before, and thus not need to bask the next morning. Instead, remaining hidden under deep cool leaflitter as a way to keep their body temps down.

 

[jahan]

Yes Ian they are adults.

 

[serpenttongue]

Also my Diamonds only get between 7 and 10 feeds a year.

That's roughly the amount I would feed mine, but I now feel it was wrong. Diamonds are voracious feeders for a reason: they have a long winter fasting period to get through, and then straight into breeding. So it's natural for them to gorge on as much as they can around March/April (which is the time of year that they are hanging around houses, haysheds, barns etc catching rats. I see no harm in feeding diamonds a lot of food in summer as long as the temps are correct. With correct temps (an ideal cool area to escape the heat), an ample food supply will only go into rapid growth, not metabolic burnout (which would happen if they were being overheated as well as being fed ample food).

 

[jahan]

A feed means it might get 2 large rats one feed and only 1 the next
I like to change it around.

 

[Striker]

Yah mate you are right there once again. I guess that is why i am a bit pationate about this discussion. I just want all the rest of captive Diamonds to have the best chance. I thought that i was doing it OK but ended NOT.
Well anyway she was a pleasure to have for some 6 years or so, the male is going to a good home on friday.

I did not mean to swerve your qstn about the divisions either, i guess that is one good thing about having drinks is that it clears the head a bit.
I have actually done divisions in my BHP enclosures as you say. It seems to be working very good & enables the thermostat to easily regulate the heat at hot end while the cooler end stays cooler. Due to hot summer weather here i have also put the BHPs into a air conditioned room so that the ac can come on at intervals during hot weather to keep the room cooled.
As you could understand there would not be much of a cool end if the ambient room temp was say 40c.

Cheers
Ian

Can understand your passion. I wish that diamond was coming to my good home on Friday. How come you're sending him off? Too hot?

I like the partition idea. Can see how it will make a much better or more precise gradient.

 

[dee4]

The Keeping and breeding is a good basic starting point for all beginners, the article was done by Russel Grant who is down Melb way. You need to look at your conditions around your area as what suits someone in Melb may not necessarily suit another in Port Mac. I keep mine inside as my farm is to open and I can't get enough protection from the harsh winds we get in our area. I keep mine in 8ft units with a full wall in the middle, only having a small hole big enough for 2 snakes to pass through & to have access to either side. It is only heated in 1 side for periods replicating daylight periods & no more than 30-32 deg, the opposite side has no heating at all, i find they go to the heated side regularly over the day but spend majority of their time in the cool side with whatever ambient we have in the house. If it is over 25deg inside generally the evap is on so it is not very often it gets to hot. No night temps for them so come the end of March they have pretty much had there feed up for the year and settle in for winter.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Been through the heartache of loosing a Diamond at 9 years old and thought that was young.
Without going on and on I do believe that housing and temp control were the biggest driver in her premature death.

With that in mind my Diamonds are now housed in 1200X600X1800 tanks. Multi level, wintered every year after 2 years of age. Summer temps still a problem and will be investing in a personal air con for the snake room this year.

Just wanted to comment on the feeding, my Diamonds are currently in a feeding frenzy, I cant feed them enough. A 6ft male who normally takes 1X150g rat every 2 or 3 weeks is eating double that and still looking for more. I'm not a believer in over feeding but I do not agree with the 7-10 feeds per year strategy. I think that March through to early May let them take whatever they want, it will be a long cold winter and fat reserves need to maintained.

To reply to the actual wintering question that started this thread, I supply a hot zone for basking 3-4 hours a day most days but I do vary this and have turned this off for a week to try to replicate the true weather. Not every day is there a sunny spell where the animals can get out to bask. Mine will be having the last feed by the end of April and in full winter by the end of May.

I know everyone has their own opinions but we need to learn from each other and if someone out there has a 25 year old Diamond Python please PM me and tell me the secret because I do not want to loose another one in their prime.

Been a good thread to read so far, enjoyed reading from those of you who have set up outside . Would love to try that but not brave enough lol.

 

[Striker]

I know everyone has their own opinions but we need to learn from each other and if someone out there has a 25 year old Diamond Python please PM me and tell me the secret because I do not want to loose another one in their prime.

.

And once you've PM'd him with the secret copy it after you're done typing it out and put it in this thread.

 

[jahan]

I don`t have a 25yr old but this one was hatched on 28- 2- 99 bred
by Russel Grant.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

The Keeping and breeding is a good basic starting point for all beginners, the article was done by Russel Grant who is down Melb way. You need to look at your conditions around your area as what suits someone in Melb may not necessarily suit another in Port Mac. I keep mine inside as my farm is to open and I can't get enough protection from the harsh winds we get in our area. I keep mine in 8ft units with a full wall in the middle, only having a small hole big enough for 2 snakes to pass through & to have access to either side. It is only heated in 1 side for periods replicating daylight periods & no more than 30-32 deg, the opposite side has no heating at all, i find they go to the heated side regularly over the day but spend majority of their time in the cool side with whatever ambient we have in the house. If it is over 25deg inside generally the evap is on so it is not very often it gets to hot. No night temps for them so come the end of March they have pretty much had there feed up for the year and settle in for winter.

Mate i reckon that you have nailed it for an indoor enclosure for them.JMO.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Striker]

Did the articles go up? I can't find them.

 

[cement]

I had a nice decent reply all laid out with tips on building an avairy, but then my borrowed computer froze and I lost it all. Anyway, I read the sheet by Chiras, there is stuff in there I like and stuff I dislike. I have witnessed adult male wild diamonds combat and found females larger then what he says. As far as cooling goes, think about this.... What does a snake do to keep their immunity system strong? I would advise that you listen to the Aussies in this thread who actually live in diamond country when it comes to keeping diamonds.

Diamonds have the ability to handle colder, drier weather then their northern brothers but they still need their heat through winter. Not a lot, but they still need to get their temps up now and again to keep the immunity up.We get the odd day in winter that is warm,cloudless days where the sun comes through. In an out of wind area a black snake can get quite warm, and diamonds have a great knack for being able to retain heat for long periods.

 

[Cockney_Red]

Been through the heartache of loosing a Diamond at 9 years old and thought that was young.
Without going on and on I do believe that housing and temp control were the biggest driver in her premature death.

With that in mind my Diamonds are now housed in 1200X600X1800 tanks. Multi level, wintered every year after 2 years of age. Summer temps still a problem and will be investing in a personal air con for the snake room this year.

Just wanted to comment on the feeding, my Diamonds are currently in a feeding frenzy, I cant feed them enough. A 6ft male who normally takes 1X150g rat every 2 or 3 weeks is eating double that and still looking for more. I'm not a believer in over feeding but I do not agree with the 7-10 feeds per year strategy. I think that March through to early May let them take whatever they want, it will be a long cold winter and fat reserves need to maintained.

To reply to the actual wintering question that started this thread, I supply a hot zone for basking 3-4 hours a day most days but I do vary this and have turned this off for a week to try to replicate the true weather. Not every day is there a sunny spell where the animals can get out to bask. Mine will be having the last feed by the end of April and in full winter by the end of May.

I know everyone has their own opinions but we need to learn from each other and if someone out there has a 25 year old Diamond Python please PM me and tell me the secret because I do not want to loose another one in their prime.

Been a good thread to read so far, enjoyed reading from those of you who have set up outside . Would love to try that but not brave enough lol.

Mine are hunting constantly, but refused to eat, to a one 3 weeks ago, but they fed a bit better than your male, through the Summer.